"Mach 4" 4-Door Mustang + Off-Road Baja Mustang models previewed at Ford dealers meeting!

[Ricketts]

If the 3.5 TT was the highest performing option (and no, I am not advocating for it), it would also need an AWD setup (RWD Biased) and it would need to the 450 hp/500 ft lbs of torque version, or one with higher HP and Torque figures.

PLEASE, no ecoboost. 5.0/6spd I'm a buyer. My fear is it will come out as a ecoboost/auto car, if so I'm out. Before they put all their faith in a V6/auto car, hopefully they are smart enough to look back at 2010-19 Taurus SHO and remember how poorly that car sold.

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[MaddNomad]

PLEASE, no ecoboost. 5.0/6spd I'm a buyer. My fear is it will come out as a ecoboost/auto car, if so I'm out. Before they put all their faith in a V6/auto car, hopefully they are smart enough to look back at 2010-19 Taurus SHO and remember how poorly that car sold.

I think if they stick to the Mustang name it shouldn’t have a V8 at all to keep the Mustang special. If it’s JUST “Mach 4” then sure.

 

[Stonehauler]

PLEASE, no ecoboost. 5.0/6spd I'm a buyer. My fear is it will come out as a ecoboost/auto car, if so I'm out. Before they put all their faith in a V6/auto car, hopefully they are smart enough to look back at 2010-19 Taurus SHO and remember how poorly that car sold.

I completely agree. I think it should have the exact same powertrain options, maybe excluding the speciality variants, but I could easily see it having the halo options as well...they sold very well in the charger.

So yes, I would advocate for the 5.0 and not the Ecoboost as the top tier engine. It just makes a lot of sense.

I think if they stick to the Mustang name it shouldn’t have a V8 at all to keep the Mustang special. If it’s JUST “Mach 4” then sure.

Enough keeping the "Mustang" special. That's a great way to ensure it dies. Keep the engines the same so that is uses as much as possible in terms of common components to keep costs down. Not allowing the V-8 in the sedan version would be a huge mistake

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

I think if they stick to the Mustang name it shouldn’t have a V8 at all to keep the Mustang special. If it’s JUST “Mach 4” then sure.

Interesting take. May I ask why no V8 if it has the Mustang name attached to it?

5.0/10A or 7DCT for the right price would be a buy from me, otherwise I'd get a regular GT/Premium coupe.

 

[MaddNomad]

Interesting take. May I ask why no V8 if it has the Mustang name attached to it?

5.0/10A or 7DCT for the right price would be a buy from me, otherwise I'd get a regular GT/Premium coupe.

Well yeah that’s the point, we want to preserve the Mustang and keep it around longer right?

I’ve said it before on here but the main reason is if price is the same, options are the same you’re just cannibalizing sales of the Mustang. Coupe is a niche product so you’re mainly attracting enthusiasts, sedan in typical form would have more buyers just do to space. Especially if people have to pick between the 2.

I think going the performance F150 route would do enough to differentiate the 2 where you have a ecoboost as your main performance option and maybe a predator as a top trim type thing. That way the V8 is still there but doesn’t run into normal GT sales. I honesty think that should be like that for any sedan in general, regardless of the name. They could do the whole Mustang engine option but make it auto only to differentiate them like you said I’m just not sure if it’s enough.

With the Charger and Challenger they had similar options across the board the difference was name, design, and transmission. Panamera has a a similar design to the 911, but the difference is name, options, transmission. (Sorry for the long response, I was trying to figure out how to articulate what I mean)

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Well yeah that’s the point, we want to preserve the Mustang and keep it around longer right?

I’ve said it before on here but the main reason is if price is the same, options are the same you’re just cannibalizing sales of the Mustang. Coupe is a niche product so you’re mainly attracting enthusiasts, sedan in typical form would have more buyers just do to space. Especially if people have to pick between the 2.

I think going the performance F150 route would do enough to differentiate the 2 where you have a ecoboost as your main performance option and maybe a predator as a top trim type thing. That way the V8 is still there but doesn’t run into normal GT sales. I honesty think that should be like that for any sedan in general, regardless of the name. They could do the whole Mustang engine option but make it auto only to differentiate them like you said I’m just not sure if it’s enough.

With the Charger and Challenger they had similar options across the board the difference was name, design, and transmission. Panamera has a a similar design to the 911, but the difference is name, options, transmission. (Sorry for the long response, I was trying to figure out how to articulate what I mean)

I think if the Mach-4 is priced closely to the GT/Premium, it will also be priced within regular CT5 territory. Say for a moment the top trim Mach-4 runs $55-60K, that puts it just outside the starting price of the CT5-V (non-Blackwing).

Between those two I think it'd be a difficult sell for the Mach-4 if the top model was only offered with a twin turbo V6 or an EcoBoost I-4. Given Ford's recent issues with recalls (possibly long-term reliability? Not sure on this one...) and taking into account build quality, I can't imagine someone picking the Ford over something likely more luxurious/comfortable with noteworthy driving chops (according to critics from what I've read, I can't say whether owners think similarly) in the Cadillac. Without a V8 I think the Mach-4 becomes an identical-engined, less luxurious offering to the CT5 barring vehicle size. With the Coyote V8, the Mach-4 would undercut the Blackwing by a noticeable amount ($30K-40K), and it would especially be tempting if it has driving dynamics above or at least on par with the BW. Predator/Legend V8...well, that becomes unobtainium for my driving purposes.

That's my hot take.

 

[Ricketts]

I think if they stick to the Mustang name it shouldn’t have a V8 at all to keep the Mustang special. If it’s JUST “Mach 4” then sure.

No, I'm more of a if you wanna stick Mustang name on it, it better have a V8 option mindset.

 

[Ricketts]

I completely agree. I think it should have the exact same powertrain options, maybe excluding the speciality variants, but I could easily see it having the halo options as well...they sold very well in the charger.

Bingo! Its no mystery they are trying to take up the market share the Charger left behind. I think the smart option is offer all the same as the 2dr variant. Dodge sold a bunch of Hellcat Chargers, which proves there is buyers for such a machine.

 

[MaddNomad]

I think if the Mach-4 is priced closely to the GT/Premium, it will also be priced within regular CT5 territory. Say for a moment the top trim Mach-4 runs $55-60K, that puts it just outside the starting price of the CT5-V (non-Blackwing).

Between those two I think it'd be a difficult sell for the Mach-4 if the top model was only offered with a twin turbo V6 or an EcoBoost I-4. Given Ford's recent issues with recalls (possibly long-term reliability? Not sure on this one...) and taking into account build quality, I can't imagine someone picking the Ford over something likely more luxurious/comfortable with noteworthy driving chops (according to critics from what I've read, I can't say whether owners think similarly) in the Cadillac. Without a V8 I think the Mach-4 becomes an identical-engined, less luxurious offering to the CT5 barring vehicle size. With the Coyote V8, the Mach-4 would undercut the Blackwing by a noticeable amount ($30K-40K), and it would especially be tempting if it has driving dynamics above or at least on par with the BW. Predator/Legend V8...well, that becomes unobtainium for my driving purposes.

That's my hot take.

I agree with you on that. It’s just a very fragile thing to navigate for Ford. It’s one of those things where there are examples on the market, but they were done way different than how Ford is doing it.

Like you said, if it wasn’t a 5.0 with an auto you would consider the GT instead, isn’t that the point though? Not you personally but for this brand exercise, you would want everything to be different enough to stand on its own, but lacking in some ways where you need each variant (coupe, sedan). A lot of people would still buy it but you limit stealing Mustang sales. I want to see what you say first before I give an example and an ask a question, cause I’m curious on your take.

Blackwing supposedly isn’t going to be around much longer anyways from what Cadillac said at launch.

No, I'm more of a if you wanna stick Mustang name on it, it better have a V8 option mindset.

Yeah I see that. That’s why I was thinking more of the Raptor type engine lineup to differentiate.

 

[Stonehauler]

I agree with you on that. It’s just a very fragile thing to navigate for Ford. It’s one of those things where there are examples on the market, but they were done way different than how Ford is doing it.

Like you said, if it wasn’t a 5.0 with an auto you would consider the GT instead, isn’t that the point though? Not you personally but for this brand exercise, you would want everything to be different enough to stand on its own, but lacking in some ways where you need each variant (coupe, sedan). A lot of people would still buy it but you limit stealing Mustang sales. I want to see what you say first before I give an example and an ask a question, cause I’m curious on your take.

Blackwing supposedly isn’t going to be around much longer anyways from what Cadillac said at launch.

Yeah I see that. That’s why I was thinking more of the Raptor type engine lineup to differentiate.

Not a thing to navigate
If ford doesn’t have a performance sedan, what is the likelihood I will buy one from a competitor? 100 percent

if ford‘s performance sedan doesn’t perform (aka, no V8), what is the chance I will buy a competitors product…99.99 percent.

what are the percentage of people that think like I do when it comes to 2 door vs 4 door vehicles answer demonstrated by sales of chargers, broncos, and wranglers vs their two door cousins…about 2-3x more or higher. In other words, ford stands to gain a heck of a lot more than it would lose.

remember, the new car won’t be faster than the Mustang. In fact, since it would be stretched, it would be slower, still giving the edge to the 2 door. keeping the Mustang 2 door guarantees that by 2030, the only Mustang in production will be the Mach E.

 

[MaddNomad]

Not a thing to navigate
If ford doesn’t have a performance sedan, what is the likelihood I will buy one from a competitor? 100 percent

if ford‘s performance sedan doesn’t perform (aka, no V8), what is the chance I will buy a competitors product…99.99 percent.

what are the percentage of people that think like I do when it comes to 2 door vs 4 door vehicles answer demonstrated by sales of chargers, broncos, and wranglers vs their two door cousins…about 2-3x more or higher. In other words, ford stands to gain a heck of a lot more than it would lose.

remember, the new car won’t be faster than the Mustang. In fact, since it would be stretched, it would be slower, still giving the edge to the 2 door. keeping the Mustang 2 door guarantees that by 2030, the only Mustang in production will be the Mach E.

I get the point you’re trying to make but me and @BoostRabbitGT went over that. SUV you can’t compare because of context with 2 door SUVs being really impractical in a segment popular for space.

The Charger did well but had a different design, transmission, and design from its coupe counterpart which was what I was stating earlier and also added the high end example of the 911 and the Panamera. Every other competitor does what I’m describing. There’s more that distinguishes the sedan from coupe counterparts for a reason. That’s why we were saying the new Charger would be a good gauge on how it all could work but that thing has other issues to worry about.

A sedan is needed though, that’s something everyone agrees with. It’s all hypothetical anyways but I will point out regardless what the sedan has, it’ll outsell the Mustang just because of space and convenience. They could lose you, me or this forum (enthusiasts) as customers but will still get the average joe and that’s more important sales wise.

 

[Ricketts]

Yeah I see that. That’s why I was thinking more of the Raptor type engine lineup to differentiate.

I sure hope it doesn't have a 3.5 Ecoboost. If it does it will just be another Taurus SHO that no one will care about. Compare Charger vs SHO sales numbers, HUGE variable. V8 is the attraction. I owned a widebody Charger, if it only came with the turbo 6 I wouldn't of ever bought it. Dodge is already seeing exactly what I mean when they compare previous V8 Charger sales to their new turbo 6 car that no one cares about at all.

 

[Stonehauler]

I get the point you’re trying to make but me and @BoostRabbitGT went over that. SUV you can’t compare because of context with 2 door SUVs being really impractical in a segment popular for space.

The Charger did well but had a different design, transmission, and design from its coupe counterpart which was what I was stating earlier and also added the high end example of the 911 and the Panamera. Every other competitor does what I’m describing. There’s more that distinguishes the sedan from coupe counterparts for a reason. That’s why we were saying the new Charger would be a good gauge on how it all could work but that thing has other issues to worry about.

A sedan is needed though, that’s something everyone agrees with. It’s all hypothetical anyways but I will point out regardless what the sedan has, it’ll outsell the Mustang just because of space and convenience. They could lose you, me or this forum (enthusiasts) as customers but will still get the average joe and that’s more important sales wise.

Sorry, hit post too fast.

I can get behind a manual only being in the coupe. I think that's enough of a difference.
That said, the Challenger actually had the better rear seat when it came to tall people. At 6'2" with a long torso, I could still fit back there without my head hitting the roof (and that's REALLY hard to find for someone like me...heck, I don't fit in about 30-50 percent of cars and my head hits the roof in the my F350 with sunroof). In the charger, my head hit the rear window and forced me to either have an awkward angle in my neck or my knees hitting the seat in front as I had to slouch down.

The V8 would be critical to the sedan's success as it would allow people who would not get the 2 door version to at least consider the 4 door. At 74k for the dark horse and over 64k for a well built GT (both 2024 models configured this morning), you are pushing very high numbers. For that money, you can get a very well equipped M340 with AWD. With 4 doors, the S650 sedan would probably be 3-5k more than the 2 door variant unless the ONLY difference is the number of doors. No chance in length, roofline, etc.

It's already been established that Ford does not have the build quality of BMW, so it has to offer something BMW does not. The V8 is that. EB only would kill that. The ONLY other option would be to offer the 3.5 EB in 450 HP and 500 FT-LB trim and AWD as a top engine/drive configuration.

Since the AWD system would require some major engineering and it's doubtful Ford would spend a lot of money on that (Ford's previous AWD systems are based on a FWD plus rear wheels not RWD plus front wheels, so they old system is not sufficient for it), then it's doubtful that would happen. This means the Coyote would need to happen...but maybe only A10.

As for the Wrangler...people like you cried for YEARS that a 4 door would kill the two door, that adding a bed would kill the 2 door, etc. These SAVED the 2 door. 2 doors of any type of impractical, even the mustang. Also, the 6 pack isn't out yet, so there are no sales of the Charger ICE yet. Just like there are no sales of the 4 door as that isn't out yet either. So a lot of your arguments just don't hold water.

 

[Ricketts]

Also, the 6 pack isn't out yet, so there are no sales of the Charger ICE yet. Just like there are no sales of the 4 door as that isn't out yet either. So a lot of your arguments just don't hold water.

You know we don't need them released yet to know they are gonna sell very poorly compared to their V8 counterparts they replaced. I bet none of you know a single person interested in one, thats a huge sign right there.

 

[MaddNomad]

As for the Wrangler...people like you cried for YEARS that a 4 door would kill the two door, that adding a bed would kill the 2 door, etc. These SAVED the 2 door. 2 doors of any type of impractical, even the mustang. Also, the 6 pack isn't out yet, so there are no sales of the Charger ICE yet. Just like there are no sales of the 4 door as that isn't out yet either. So a lot of your arguments just don't hold water.

Man you can’t say my arguments don’t hold water and start bringing up SUVs. Lmao. SUVs like the Bronco, Wangler etc eventually got 4 doors because 2 doors in a segment like SUVs is ultra inconvenient. You’re lumping something in there with entirely different context and not something I’m talking about.

I said originally they shouldn’t have named a 4 door what they’re naming it but it’s happening anyways, and regardless of name was curious on how they could differentiate the two.

Just to get this straight, I want a performance sedan. I was giving a basic idea on engine lineup because Ford is making a sedan that essentially is going to be a Mustang with extra doors. Since the only examples we have so far have at least 3 different characteristics, that’s why I was thinking of the lineup.

I think you mostly agree with me, cause I agree with you, my only wonder is engine lineup.

Otherwise before you reply talking about SUVs or something regarding sedans won’t work, steel man my argument because that’s not what I said.

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