"Mach 4" 4-Door Mustang + Off-Road Baja Mustang models previewed at Ford dealers meeting!

[DeluxeStang]

Again it’s not working like you think it is. Porsche is a manufacturer not a brand family

So is ram a model or a brand?

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[MaddNomad]

So is ram a model or a brand?

Is it Ford Mustang Mach E or Mustang Mach E?

 

[MaddNomad]

My brother in Christ, please reread the first line of his comment and realize you just proved exactly what he was saying to be true. We're talking about how car companies don't want to invest in enthusiasts cars these days, because car enthusiasts are too picky, and thus, too unreliable to cater to.

Case in point, all the people claiming they want boxy, retro off-roaders, who now say they won't buy the upcoming scout suvs and trucks because they're gonna be EV only.

How often do car enthusiasts say "I was gonna buy X until I found out it was an EV, or a sedan, or didn't offer an manual, or switched from a V8 to a 6 cyl". How often do you hear enthusiasts say that shit? All the fucking time, literally with every exciting car, it's someone bitching because the brand changed it in this way to that way.

As car enthusiasts, we're our own worst enemy. Think about it, if you're a car brand spending billions of dollars, you're probably just gonna give up on enthusiasts at some point. Because you can really try to make something great, and people will still refuse to buy it because it uses an engine they don't like, or doesn't come in the color they want. Normal car buyers don't really care about any of that stuff, they'll buy a good product, they don't care that much about the name or engine type. That's why they're winning and we're losing.

This is why I ask questions. What has been said that fits that? Like I said earlier I just refute the claims not backed by facts.

 

[Radiant]

This is why I ask questions. What has been said that fits that? Like I said earlier I just refute the claims not backed by facts.

So, then you should have no problem unequivocally acknowledging that Porsche is a brand?

 

[DeluxeStang]

Is it Ford Mustang Mach E or Mustang Mach E?

I call it the mustang mach-e, long term as ford offers more mustang models, I find it highly likely mustang will make the jump from model to brand. Like how the Hyundai Genesis became the Genesis brand, or how ram became its own brand.

I almost never hear people say "They drive a Ford mustang, or there's a Ford mustang" it's almost always just "There's a mustang, they own a mustang".

Products go from trim levels to model, and from model to full brand, pretty often. The f-series used have have ranger and explorer trims before those became their own stand alone models, it happens all the time.

 

[MaddNomad]

So, then you should have no problem unequivocally acknowledging that Porsche is a Brand?

You know what I mean. Main point is no where did Jim or any Ford rep said Mustang is like Porsche and Ford is actually doing something any of those brands haven’t done before.

All the evidence laid out is actually more of the Mustang coupe itself following the footsteps of the 911 in racing, and competing on some level, while Ford is putting the Mustang name on other models to the side for marketing purposes as it’s still under Ford.

 

[Radiant]

You know what I mean. Main point is no where did Jim or any Ford rep

They've been talking about sub-brands as "passion brands" for a few years now. This from 2021:

"Ford CEO Jim Farley was a champion of the idea of creating sub-brands around iconic Blue Oval nameplates, starting with Mustang and Bronco. With those models' early success seeing their names spread beyond their core original Mustang and Bronco models, Farley thinks there is room to expand the concept to more nameplates. "

 

[MaddNomad]

I call it the mustang mach-e, long term as ford offers more mustang models, I find it highly likely mustang will make the jump from model to brand. Like how the Hyundai Genesis became the Genesis brand, or how ram became its own brand.

I almost never hear people say "They drive a Ford mustang, or there's a Ford mustang" it's almost always just "There's a mustang, they own a mustang".

Products go from trim levels to model, and from model to full brand, pretty often. The f-series used have have ranger and explorer trims before those became their own stand alone models, it happens all the time.

Yeah that goes against the point you were trying to make with RAM though, as Ram is a brand but it’s not under Dodge whereas currently Mustangs, all of them, are Ford’s which refutes the “it’s like Porsche” claim.

is Ford creating a lineup of Mustang Variants? YES. I’m not fighting you guys on that. They’re actually doing something that hasn’t been done before right now is all I was getting at.

A lot of people just don’t think it’s needed.

 

[MaddNomad]

They've been talking about sub-brands as "passion brands" for a few years now. This from 2021:

"Ford CEO Jim Farley was a champion of the idea of creating sub-brands around iconic Blue Oval nameplates, starting with Mustang and Bronco. With those models' early success seeing their names spread beyond their core original Mustang and Bronco models, Farley thinks there is room to expand the concept to more nameplates. "​

Yeah in context he’s talking about taking what makes those special and infusing other cars with it. That’s not creating a whole new BRAND if that makes sense. It’s like Toyota with the GR stuff, Akio wanted what makes the Yaris special infused into other nameplates (ie Corolla, Supra, etc).

Ford’s trying to do that but is naming those things after a car that inspires it. Mustang and Bronco are huge names so marketing wise they’re just putting the name on it like Toyota putting GR on the cars. I understand it for marketing reasons, it’s just not necessary.

like the Mach E is a pretty good EV but there’s nothing outside of the name and some design stuff where you feel the Mustang in it. It’s very refined. Sedan I can imagine to be heavier and a longer wheelbase changes the character of the car so it wouldn’t feel like a Mustang necessarily either from a handling perspective. They’re called Mustangs by Ford yes but it’s almost like it helps them and handicaps them at the same time too.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Yeah, the mustang 2 was a two door coupe, and it was a worse mustang than the mach-e in every way. The mach-e might have 4 doors, but it looks a hundred times more attractive than the mustang 2, would out accelerate it in reverse, and is just a much better car in every way. This is my point. You guys are so stuck on this idea of having 2 doors, that you're basically defending a literal 80 hp pinto based shitbox over a 700 lb ft of torque tire shredding monster just because it has two more doors.

My point is, if the mustang 2 having a go kart engine, and a design that would make a yugo look attractive by comparison didn't kill the mustang, a sexy V8 sedan isn't gonna do as much damage to the mustang brand as you guys think it is. I never thought I would be having to work so hard to justify a V8 powered sports sedan in front of a bunch of car enthusiasts.

The Mustang 2 is a worse car overall than the Mach-E, but personally I think the 2 takes the W over the E as far as looks go.

As for the sedan, do we know anything else for sure about it besides that it has four doors? How big it is? Engine options? Transmissions? Drivetrain(s)?

 

[Zig]

The charger was literally considered to be, and often is still considered to be, one of the most iconic muscle cars from the 60s. It went sedan only, and was fine. Hence my argument that the mustang should be fine offering both, offer both, and let consumers decide, nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, the mustang 2 was a two door coupe, and it was a worse mustang than the mach-e in every way. The mach-e might have 4 doors, but it looks a hundred times more attractive than the mustang 2, would out accelerate it in reverse, and is just a much better car in every way. This is my point. You guys are so stuck on this idea of having 2 doors, that you're basically defending a literal 80 hp pinto based shitbox over a 700 lb ft of torque tire shredding monster just because it has two more doors.

My point is, if the mustang 2 having a go kart engine, and a design that would make a yugo look attractive by comparison didn't kill the mustang, a sexy V8 sedan isn't gonna do as much damage to the mustang brand as you guys think it is. I never thought I would be having to work so hard to justify a V8 powered sports sedan in front of a bunch of car enthusiasts.

Wasnt the mustang ii the result of the ev wars (read gas crisis), mach-e v 2.2 (version 2 of the ii) ?

 

[Zig]

The charger was literally considered to be, and often is still considered to be, one of the most iconic muscle cars from the 60s. It went sedan only, and was fine. Hence my argument that the mustang should be fine offering both, offer both, and let consumers decide, nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, the mustang 2 was a two door coupe, and it was a worse mustang than the mach-e in every way. The mach-e might have 4 doors, but it looks a hundred times more attractive than the mustang 2, would out accelerate it in reverse, and is just a much better car in every way. This is my point. You guys are so stuck on this idea of having 2 doors, that you're basically defending a literal 80 hp pinto based shitbox over a 700 lb ft of torque tire shredding monster just because it has two more doors.

My point is, if the mustang 2 having a go kart engine, and a design that would make a yugo look attractive by comparison didn't kill the mustang, a sexy V8 sedan isn't gonna do as much damage to the mustang brand as you guys think it is. I never thought I would be having to work so hard to justify a V8 powered sports sedan in front of a bunch of car enthusiasts.

Tbh: i think gto before i think charger

 

[Zig]

The Mustang 2 is a worse car overall than the Mach-E, but personally I think the 2 takes the W over the E as far as looks go.

As for the sedan, do we know anything else for sure about it besides that it has four doors? How big it is? Engine options? Transmissions? Drivetrain(s)?

The folks that created and defined a category are now copying another?

 

[Zig]

Yeah in context he’s talking about taking what makes those special and infusing other cars with it. That’s not creating a whole new BRAND if that makes sense. It’s like Toyota with the GR stuff, Akio wanted what makes the Yaris special infused into other nameplates (ie Corolla, Supra, etc).

Ford’s trying to do that but is naming those things after a car that inspires it. Mustang and Bronco are huge names so marketing wise they’re just putting the name on it like Toyota putting GR on the cars. I understand it for marketing reasons, it’s just not necessary.

like the Mach E is a pretty good EV but there’s nothing outside of the name and some design stuff where you feel the Mustang in it. It’s very refined. Sedan I can imagine to be heavier and a longer wheelbase changes the character of the car so it wouldn’t feel like a Mustang necessarily either from a handling perspective. They’re called Mustangs by Ford yes but it’s almost like it helps them and handicaps them at the same time too.

“At the outset, the new brand lived up to its slogan, “a different kind of car company.” It was announced as the newest addition to GM’s household in 1985, the result of a bright-eyed dream that an all-American economy car with a unique approach could best Japan’s imports. Like the United States, Saturn was indeed a Grand Experiment.”
https://www.hagerty.com/media/people/saving-saturn-a-different-kind-of-car-collector/

 

[9secondko]

It's freaking wild to me how people can seriously thing a V8 powered performance sedan will tarnish the mustangs heritage when you had things like the '71-73 land barge, or pinto based mustang 2. Most of the mustang sedan renderings I've seen are better looking than basically any mustang from 71 through the 90s, and will outperform them all day long.

The mustang 2 was a pinto
The foxbody was a hatchback that looked like it wanted to be an American ae86 Corolla with flared fenders, the 90s mustangs were blobs on wheels. There are lots of mustangs throughout history that were nothing like the original mustang in looks, driving dynamics, engine options, etc.

People say just having a 4 door option will kill the mustang. But the charger went 4 door only for decades, and thrived. I don't see how having a a two and a four door mustang is a huge turn off.

of anything else than a mustang is called a mustang, it hurts the name and confuses what has always been a clear image.

it’s not that difficult.

Btw, the mustang 2 was in the same platform as pinto bbut wasn’t one. Just as the Fox mustang wasn’t the same as other fox platform vehicles, nor the s197 the same as other d2c cars.

let’s get back to reality.

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