ESS G3 Supercharger kit arrived & installed!

[Junkyard Dog]

It's just physics.

You are pushing 12 psi into an engine that was originally 486 hp before you ever touched it. It has 12:1 compression.

What is that going to be? 780 hp?

300 or more extra horsepower to cool.

That is a lot of heat to somehow transfer to the coolant and then transfer it again to the air. And you have to do it within he confines of the S650 Mustang envelope and, well, if you want to keep air conditioning and so on . . . it's a tough ask.

I don't think anybody has solved it yet.

Pull for a few seconds on the street does not create enough heat to cause any issues. A quarter mile with a cool down period again creates no issues (although back to back runs with no break might).

But 20-30 minutes of hard running on a real race track means removing the heat from 780-800 horsepower.

1 horsepower is 2544 BTU (with some after the decimal point numbers, LOL).

800 horsepower is over 2 MILLION BTU/hr.

486 hp is only 1.2 million BTU/hr. And they needed the performance package to try to keep that cool on track, right?

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[ZXMustang]

It's just physics.

You are pushing 12 psi into an engine that was originally 486 hp before you ever touched it. It has 12:1 compression.

What is that going to be? 780 hp?

300 or more extra horsepower to cool.

That is a lot of heat to somehow transfer to the coolant and then transfer it again to the air. And you have to do it within he confines of the S650 Mustang envelope and, well, if you want to keep air conditioning and so on . . . it's a tough ask.

I don't think anybody has solved it yet.

Pull for a few seconds on the street does not create enough heat to cause any issues. A quarter mile with a cool down period again creates no issues (although back to back runs with no break might).

But 20-30 minutes of hard running on a real race track means removing the heat from 780-800 horsepower.

1 horsepower is 2544 BTU (with some after the decimal point numbers, LOL).

800 horsepower is over 2 MILLION BTU/hr.

486 hp is only 1.2 million BTU/hr. And they needed the performance package to try to keep that cool on track, right?

Fueling is changed dont forget. Power enrichment is scaled up and enrichment rates are also increased to get fueling to our targets faster. Spark is reduced for increased cylinder pressure.

I understand what you are looking for and I'm sure tuning can get you there. But I think you are just simply to cautious to allow it and see. Every time you ask these type of questions, you come back with a laundy list of reasons why its not the same, or you dont understand or thats fine for your case but not mine.

I have tuned a few drift s650 cars that sit on the limiter for 10-20 minutes at a time simply to just prevent them from overheating/going into limp mode and to allow them to live at that limit without popping. So I know what can be achieved with these engines pushing cooling to the max, helping with fuel enrichment as well as many other tweaks and changes.

I'm going to leave it at this since this is my ESS thread and I'd like to keep it on topic.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I don't have a "laundry list."

I have one use for it. One task. That's it.

HPDE is (usually) 30 minute sessions.

Show me a car that is forced induction (centrifugal, turbo, or positive displacement, I do not care which) that can complete 30 minute sessions on track, and I will be happy to take a look. Drifting does not do that. The runs are shorter. It is a different use case. They are also not applying all of their horsepower on the straights (for obvious reasons). I have seen turbo and supercharger S550 and S650 Mustangs make ten minutes on track for HPDE. I have not (yet) seen them do thirty minutes. A typical day is five sessions. At a two day event, that is ten sessions of 30 minutes, each.

That is not a laundry list. It is just reality. I have been looking, and so far, not one single car in the entire world has accomplished this specific use case: 30 minutes on track driving hard.

I'm going to leave it at this since this is my ESS thread and I'd like to keep it on topic.

Sorry.

Alright, I'll take the hint.

No criticism of the ESS. I think it's neat and love some of the acceleration 60-130 videos I have seen online. It appears to be right in its element doing that sort of task.

If you ever decide to try road course HPDE, please let us know.

 

[ZXMustang]

I don't have a "laundry list."

I have one use for it. One task. That's it.

HPDE is (usually) 30 minute sessions.

Show me a car that is forced induction (centrifugal, turbo, or positive displacement, I do not care which) that can complete 30 minute sessions on track, and I will be happy to take a look. Drifting does not do that. The runs are shorter. It is a different use case. They are also not applying all of their horsepower on the straights (for obvious reasons). I have seen turbo and supercharger S550 and S650 Mustangs make ten minutes on track for HPDE. I have not (yet) seen them do thirty minutes. A typical day is five sessions. At a two day event, that is ten sessions of 30 minutes, each.

That is not a laundry list. It is just reality. I have been looking, and so far, not one single car in the entire world has accomplished this specific use case: 30 minutes on track driving hard.





Sorry.

Alright, I'll take the hint.

No criticism of the ESS. I think it's neat and love some of the acceleration 60-130 videos I have seen online. It appears to be right in its element doing that sort of task.

If you ever decide to try road course HPDE, please let us know.

Thanks and at some point I will but it won’t be in a Mustang. That’s not a shot at you but I have another C8 in my future probably a z06 and that’s what I’ll use. For now the Mustang is a business expense and working quite well for me. Once I’m done with it, the next car will be here and I’ll use it for that purpose. Wasn’t trying to offend you btw, just hard to convince someone that doesn’t appear to want convincing.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

No shot at me - I was looking at Corvettes when my wife said, "You need a back seat," two kids at home, and, well, here I am!

 

[Junkyard Dog]

And I am not offended at all. Apologies if I gave that impression.

 

[ZXMustang]

The more I refine out the tune, the worse the low side pump pressure gets. This is bad. @Brevin I think it should be mandatory you get a BAP or fuel system with this kit. I have been working this for a few weeks now and its crystal clear, this car does not have enough pump even with good injectors to support 93 with the 120mm pulley. Im still seeing good high side, but the pump is dying and on an aging car with an older pump, this is a catastrophe waiting to happen. I might try a BAP for now, but I think a fuel system is mandatory. Which is strange the whipple guys are getting away with it. I dont quite understand that. Maybe Im missing something?

 

[Brevin]

The more I refine out the tune, the worse the low side pump pressure gets. This is bad. @Brevin I think it should be mandatory you get a BAP or fuel system with this kit. I have been working this for a few weeks now and its crystal clear, this car does not have enough pump even with good injectors to support 93 with the 120mm pulley. Im still seeing good high side, but the pump is dying and on an aging car with an older pump, this is a catastrophe waiting to happen. I might try a BAP for now, but I think a fuel system is mandatory. Which is strange the whipple guys are getting away with it. I dont quite understand that. Maybe Im missing something?

Must be, fuel system is definitely overkill. A BAP is all everyone used for Gen 1, 2, and 3. Mine held great on the 120 and 93. Made 733whp. The whipple guys have been running 93 and 13-14 PSI for years now without a BAP and on 55lbs injectors. I’m not sure what the deal is.

 

[ZXMustang]

Glad you’re having fun, she rips.

Just FYI, you don’t need a BAP for that setup, there’s a few things you still need to figure out that will help. We were able to keep pressure rock solid on that setup and it had room for more.

Must be, fuel system is definitely overkill. A BAP is all everyone used for Gen 1, 2, and 3. Mine held great on the 120 and 93. Made 733whp. The whipple guys have been running 93 and 13-14 PSI for years now without a BAP and on 55lbs injectors. I’m not sure what the deal is.

For sure Im still working on it. But its not looking good from what Im seeing. Trying not to lean into the stock pump with too much voltage though. Im sure it would hold if I push it to 18v, but should I? Lol might work for now but how about long term. As I said, its still a work in progress. But man its fast now. Very impressed

 

[Brevin]

For sure Im still working on it. But its not looking good from what Im seeing. Trying not to lean into the stock pump with too much voltage though. Im sure it would hold if I push it to 18v, but should I? Lol might work for now but how about long term. As I said, its still a work in progress. But man its fast now. Very impressed

That’s a good question. I’m not sure what the whipple calibration does but they don’t even include a BAP for the stage 2 kit. They must up the voltage a fair amount.

 

[ZXMustang]

That’s a good question. I’m not sure what the whipple calibration does but they don’t even include a BAP for the stage 2 kit. They must up the voltage a fair amount.

They do to 18 and they also push the alternator to 15v in all alternator scenarios. Thats a wow really thing I see.

 

[ZXMustang]

7800 RPM shifts now. I had the gopro mouth mount so dont mind the heavy breathing...lol Plus I was nervous hitting it like that with the stock tires on still. It feels insane in the seat.

 

[ZXMustang]

So my car is tuned. Im still working on some tq modulation nuances with the trans when in drag mode, but I have sent out a few beta tester tunes for folks I know just got kits. Its looking very good.

This kit is very well engineered and a tremendous value. I have about 700miles on my kit so far and its about as hard of miles as you could ask for. Relentless WOT pulls from 2-6 gear. It drives right, hits hard on shifts now and is quite amazing sounding.

Thanks to the ESS team for putting this together and not rushing out a kit based on demand. You cant fault them for taking the time to make it right. And man its good. All in paying full retail for everything - nothing given to me - I'm about $8700 installed all in. Tuning not accounted for since I tuned it myself.

 

[Ewags81]

did you end up doing anything with fuel supply besides upping voltage and installing the bigger injectors? i wasn't planning on going past the 120mm either.

 

[ZXMustang]

did you end up doing anything with fuel supply besides upping voltage and installing the bigger injectors? i wasn't planning on going past the 120mm either.

No, just lots of tuning magic to massage up the low side to keep WOT pump pressures.

I still dont see the "tons of headroom" on the pump side that has been said here, but its more than fine at these levels with a good set of injectors. Once you unleash the low side voltage and allow for more duty cycle, it comes up nicely. My opinion is its good for the 120mm pulley but you'd need a BAP at the very least to get you over the next hurdle.

And for the $1500, Wengerd's fuel system is worth it. No looking back then with that and some FIC1000s or the ID1050x injectors. Then its pulley down and fill up on E and send it.

But feeling what this car feels like on the street, I cant imagine putting more power in it without being full time on an expensive drag radial. Being able to DD this on street tires, with just 93 octane and maybe a splash of octane booster, what a hell of a package.

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