BMW M3 (E90) vs S650

[dualpoint]

I used to have an E60 M5 (the one with the bigger brother S85 V10) that's much closer in terms of size / power / weight etc to the S650 (even had adaptive dampers). As well it had a 500hp 5L engine just with a V10 instead of V8 and in America you could get it with a 6 speed manual, europe was stuck with the 7 speed SMG.

The M6 would of been the equivalent in terms of seats/doors.

They even ran very similar tyres sizes (255/40R19 up front, 285/35R19 at the rear) but i'm not sure if it was the more even / rearward weight distribution, the trick differential or the Michelin SuperSports i had on it or just a more aggressive traction control map but even in Mental 'M' mode it had way more traction than the dark horse and it rarely ever flinched. The butt dyno suggested it was putting down significantly more of it's power.

I only got shot of it as i'd had it 4 years (and it was 16 years old) and had avoided expensive repairs so far (replaced the throttle actuators myself, it only has two the same as the coyote just spread over 5 cylinders each) but i could sense big spends coming up. Especially when they advised the rear brake lines would need to be replaced in the next few years and the main dealer didn't want to do it.
Lines were cheap but they ran above the fuel tank which meant removing most of the rear end.

The well documented issues with throttle actuators and rod bearing are just two things I expect to avoid with the coyote engine. The coyote is well developed, mature and very solid - good for 200K?

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[LouG]

I forgot to add in my original post - I spent 1 year (way too long) looking at cars. This include the BRZ/GR86, Nissan Z, Acura Integra Type S, and the BMW M2. Lots of research and test drives ... and more research. I guess a reason this dragged out for me was that there was nothing that bowled my over during the first impression. And I think weight was one of the reasons. I thought the BRZ would be perfect for me - back to basics sports car, I don't need a lot of room, lightest thing out there, has a manual, AND it was the cheapest option.

But - in the end, the Mustang won me over. Maybe its my age (always wanted a 1970 Boss 302), or I was tired of buzzy engines and wanted an American V8, ... Even with the weight and larger size, I kept coming back to the Mustang. So far, I am very happy I did.

I had both the GT86, and now the Mustang. The Toyota was great but I friend zoned it.
The Ford is the dogs nuts. I'm in car love.

 

[rbuike]

That picture tells me how large the Mustang has grown.

You should see the current gen BMW 3 Series

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The really telling numbers are in braking. 6' is the difference between a miss, and a big hit.

Dark Horse with handling package 60-0 is 86 feet.

 

[junqdawg]

FYI : for those who think the 20 year old car can't hang ...

BMW E90/E92
Car and Driver
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a16579304/2008-bmw-m3-long-term-road-test/

"For less than $70,000, the M3 bolts from a standstill to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds and turns the quarter-mile in 12.7 seconds at 113 mph. It pulls an exceptional 0.96 g on the skidpad, stops in 147 feet from 70 mph, and reaches a governor-restricted 161 mph"


Mustang s650
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a44892132/2024-ford-mustang-gt-test/

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.2 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.5 sec @ 114 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 153 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.99 g

I enjoyed the gentleman's post on the two totally different cars . Somebody educate me please ...I have a 2018 RED GT 5.0 10 speed auto. 3:55 rear axle 19" Junk Perelli's {SP?} don't matter, not worth time to look up. That's what tires it came with, Course they gone bye-bye now . Just flipped 35K mi's . Why was it faster out the door STOCK than these newer ones ,equipped similarly ? No , I ain't been to a 1/4 mile track . I used the car's computer after my small brain figured all the cool things it did . I am not taking the readings I got as "GOSPEL" . But It was running high 11's ....11.81 , best 11.77 @ 117 mph . Road was nice paved asphalt. No launch option button on this car . just played with RPM takeoff 1100-1400, just flooring from a dead idle 700rpm
I got 12.2 out of it . My Ford guy who races Mustang professionally told me '18 and 19's had a bit more power than latter models. No explanation , anyone else have this same experience ? You can call me crazy , idiot Redneck ,,whatever ,,been called worse.. Been street racing since 16 yrs old , even ran at the Drag Strip on I-45 south of Houston {Dickinson I believe GAY PONTIAC was a partner in it . Ran 66 Mustang GT F/back 271HP and like every gearhead in late 60's a 396 SS.. Chevelle . Yep, I know last thing ya'll interested in is ancient car history . mainly I want to get feedback from other 2018-2019 GT owners I'd love to hit a real drag strip but I moved to the sticks in E.Tx 46 yrs ago and nearest track 125 miles away . Is there an age rule on drivers now days or does anyone know ?At 76 probably blackball me .. thanks for your time ..junqdawg TEXAS.......................................

 

[dualpoint]

For some of the younger readers ... similar to the Mustang special editions, such as the Dark Horse - the e9x M3 also had a special edition ... the GTS.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

For some of the younger readers ... similar to the Mustang special editions, such as the Dark Horse - the e9x M3 also had a special edition ... the GTS.

Never sold in the US or Australia. The internet cannot seem to agree on the number of these cars produced, but it is in the range of 138 - 150. Average sale on the used car market is around a quarter million US $, with prime examples fetching over $300k.

 

[Dave2013M3]

FYI : for those who think the 20 year old car can't hang ...

BMW E90/E92
Car and Driver
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a16579304/2008-bmw-m3-long-term-road-test/

"For less than $70,000, the M3 bolts from a standstill to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds and turns the quarter-mile in 12.7 seconds at 113 mph. It pulls an exceptional 0.96 g on the skidpad, stops in 147 feet from 70 mph, and reaches a governor-restricted 161 mph"


Mustang s650
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a44892132/2024-ford-mustang-gt-test/

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.2 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.5 sec @ 114 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 153 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.99 g

Thats with older tires, tire tech has gotten a lot better since then. A DCT E92 M3 did 0-60 in3.9 seconds and did the 1/4mile @ 12.3@116mph. in that same test they did 0-60 in 4.1 and did the 1/4 in 12.5@114mph with a 6spd manual. Not to mention the sound a Mustang would envy. The sound from those 8 individual throttle bodies at 8400rpm was glorious.

My M3 before my S550 and then now my G87 M2. I wish I never sold the E92.

 

[LouG]

There's no doubt BMW have made great cars. But they've dropped the ball on looks

and reliability in some engine models.
And, here in NZ, they're so common. Lots of tired Jap imports have come in.

 

[Dave2013M3]

There's no doubt BMW have made great cars. But they've dropped the ball on looks

and reliability in some engine models.
And, here in NZ, they're so common. Lots of tired Jap imports have come in.

The newer S58 platform is almost bullet proof.

 

[dualpoint]

Thats with older tires, tire tech has gotten a lot better since then. A DCT E92 M3 did 0-60 in3.9 seconds and did the 1/4mile @ 12.3@116mph. in that same test they did 0-60 in 4.1 and did the 1/4 in 12.5@114mph with a 6spd manual. Not to mention the sound a Mustang would envy. The sound from those 8 individual throttle bodies at 8400rpm was glorious.

My M3 before my S550 and then now my G87 M2. I wish I never sold the E92.

Great looking car looks lowered? How do you like the M2 compared to the s550?

 

[Dave2013M3]

Great looking car looks lowered? How do you like the M2 compared to the s550?

The E92 was OEM with the ZCP springs which lowered the car 10mm. Im loving my G87...I almost bought an S650 but I was itching to get back into an M car. My G87 lowered with Eibach Pro Kit (15mm) and 15mm spacers on OEM wheels.

 

[ChitownStang]

I was so close to buying a manual M2 last year. I think they look great, contrary to most peoples opinion.
After 6 years with a 15gt and 3 with a 21 Mach 1 I wanted to explore something else .
Test drove 2 manuals , a new m2 and and used one.
very fast, sharp handling, refined interior.
But… lacked the visceral V8 feel and sound in a big way. I also was unimpressed with the manual shifter and clutch. So for me it was the Tremec Dark Horse premium, another damn Mustang, it’s in my blood! lol
I do love my wife’s x5 m-sport.
BMW makes awesome cars and if I could afford a x5 m50i I would love to have it.
BMW 8-speed auto is so good, makes the 10-speed look stupid in my opinion.

 

[dualpoint]

The E92 was OEM with the ZCP springs which lowered the car 10mm. Im loving my G87...I almost bought an S650 but I was itching to get back into an M car. My G87 lowered with Eibach Pro Kit (15mm) and 15mm spacers on OEM wheels.

Very nice!! I thought hard about the M2 ... maybe it was the $$$ difference. Every time I priced the M2 - I started to bump up to the M3/M4 & Porsche price range. I would have to get a second job - and at my age, having a tough time with one.

 

[dualpoint]

To finish up this post - for those who may not know, the e9x was the only BMW 3 series to ever have a v8. The majority had a straight 6 or 4. The v8 (s65) was very high tech for its time.

The following youtube video does a decent job in showing what goes into a typical s65:




I am still learning about the coyote - but is seems to me that it has most/al of the features that the s65 had, maybe without the individual throttle bodies, knock sensing spark plugs, ... but I'm not exactly sure. I also think that the coyote is more durable, but the question would be why? Are the engine tolerances greater (so the bearing wear would be lower???)?

Does anyone have a link to similar info for a s650 gen coyote?

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