Anyone use Top Coat F-11 Pro Polish and Sealer ?

[Vapor Blue GT]

Wax vs ceramic coating: There is a difference. Even you admitted it a few posts ago "You are correct on waxes not equivalent to ceramics." Wax does not bond molecularly, while ceramic does. That's like the difference between laying a piece of paper over something versus gluing it to the surface - far less chance something compromises or comes between the two if using the latter process.

Ceramic != graphene. If ceramic did nothing, they would not use it.

Graphene in a thin automotive application does nothing. It's all marketing. I've provided my citation from a developer and manufacturer of coatings. I don't know what else to say.

Your car, your money, your choice. Or not.

Best of luck! I'm done.

I know what I said and I said 99% of people don’t need it. Comprehension goes a long way. Bonding to the paint vs not bonding doesn’t make a huge difference to many people. I can apply a wax with ceramic or graphene and get similar protection if I do it regularly. Any coating acts as a sacrificial layer, one just stays on longer and offers a little better protection but it’s not a huge difference and most people don’t care. Ceramic coatings take more time up front to a certain degree and less time throughout the year. What you get for $900 someone can get similar protection for $100, they just have to do it more often and be more careful with what comes in contact with their paint and how long they let it stay.

You cited a source, I’ve seen multiple sources say the opposite. I couldn’t care less but I do know some graphene infused products last longer and perform better than non graphene infused products from personal experience. I don’t advocate them because I’m happy with ceramic but they have their place in the market. Waxes do as well. Plenty of 20 year old cars and trucks still look great with only using wax.

Sponsored

 

[roadpilot]

Ceramic protectants (coatings) provide a much higher durability than wax. They resist heat, UV rays, environmental contaminants & harsh detergents much better than wax. There is a chemical bond between ceramic and your finish, while wax simply sits on top of it. These are all facts, not opinions. Comprehension does, as you said, go a long way.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

Ceramic protectants (coatings) provide a much higher durability than wax. They resist heat, UV rays, environmental contaminants & harsh detergents much better than wax. There is a chemical bond between ceramic and your finish, while wax simply sits on top of it. These are all facts, not opinions. Comprehension does, as you said, go a long way.

Nobody is saying that they aren’t but it’s not as huge a difference as most people think. A wax or whatever else you want to compare it to sits on top unless of course it has ceramic or graphene infused then it creates a bond as well. If you reapply a wax or sealant, other than a ceramic coating, often then it still provides protection. It’s like comparing sunscreen with spf 40 to 80. You don’t get much more than what the 40 provides even though it’s double the spf rating. It’s amazing that for the last 70 years paste wax protected paints for decades and it still does. I’ve had 20 year old cars look as good as the day I bought them only using wax or sealants. Most people don’t keep cars that long and as I said don’t need to pay high amounts of money when $100 worth of supplies will give them the same results when they sell it.

I’ve used both and still do but if someone is only keeping the car for a few years then paying high money for a ceramic coating is not a great investment. If I was going to spend that amount on a coating I’d spend more and get PPF for the best protection as an investment. As you said it’s their money spend it how they want.

 

[steveo1960]

So I got quoted $4500 for full PP, hand installed, no templates, ceramic coating on everything and tint to my desire. This place has been in business for 15 years and does many high end Porsche, Ferrari etc cars. My car is a semi daily driver so I'm really not sure what I should do. I live on the east coast where there is a lot of sand and so forth. I'm still confused.... I've always hand washed my cars and applied a quality wax. So now I am thinking of applying one of the hybrid type coatings.

 

[roadpilot]

Nobody is saying that they aren’t but it’s not as huge a difference as most people think. A wax or whatever else you want to compare it to sits on top unless of course it has ceramic or graphene infused then it creates a bond as well. If you reapply a wax or sealant, other than a ceramic coating, often then it still provides protection. It’s like comparing sunscreen with spf 40 to 80. You don’t get much more than what the 40 provides even though it’s double the spf rating. It’s amazing that for the last 70 years paste wax protected paints for decades and it still does. I’ve had 20 year old cars look as good as the day I bought them only using wax or sealants. Most people don’t keep cars that long and as I said don’t need to pay high amounts of money when $100 worth of supplies will give them the same results when they sell it.

I’ve used both and still do but if someone is only keeping the car for a few years then paying high money for a ceramic coating is not a great investment. If I was going to spend that amount on a coating I’d spend more and get PPF for the best protection as an investment. As you said it’s their money spend it how they want.

No, wax vs ceramic is not SPF 40 vs 80. Not even close.

Molecular bonding.

And PPF is a whole different ball of wax (no pun intended), and far more expensive vs ceramic.

 

[DFB5.0]

So I got quoted $4500 for full PP, hand installed, no templates, ceramic coating on everything and tint to my desire. This place has been in business for 15 years and does many high end Porsche, Ferrari etc cars. My car is a semi daily driver so I'm really not sure what I should do. I live on the east coast where there is a lot of sand and so forth. I'm still confused.... I've always hand washed my cars and applied a quality wax. So now I am thinking of applying one of the hybrid type coatings.

How long do you plan on keeping the car?

If it's only a few years, skip the PPF and just get it ceramic coated. No point paying for PPF just so the next person who buys it gets un-marked paint.

If you are keeping the car longer term, something you will love and cherish, then having PPF and the ceramic coating makes more sense to me.

 

[roadpilot]

No point paying for PPF just so the next person who buys it gets un-marked paint.

You clearly don't understand what affects resale value.

"Yea, you're only going to have it for 2 years -- just beat the piss out of it, who cares what future potential buyers will think!"

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

You clearly don't understand what affects resale value.

"Yea, you're only going to have it for 2 years -- just beat the piss out of it, who cares what future potential buyers will think!"

I’m pretty sure he details cars for a living so I think he knows what affects resale value. It’s a terrible decision to ppf a car if you are just going to sell it a few years later. You won’t recoup your cost or even come close.

 

[DFB5.0]

I’m pretty sure he details cars for a living so I think he knows what affects resale value. It’s a terrible decision to ppf a car if you are just going to sell it a few years later. You won’t recoup your cost or even come close.

That was where I was going with my comments.

 

[roadpilot]

I’m pretty sure he details cars for a living so I think he knows what affects resale value. It’s a terrible decision to ppf a car if you are just going to sell it a few years later. You won’t recoup your cost or even come close.

Protecting something you own from getting damaged won't increase its resale value 2 years later? He's clearly not the only one that doesn't understand investments.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

Protecting something you own from getting damaged won't increase its resale value 2 years later? He's clearly not the only one that doesn't understand investments.

Well, if you need PPF to keep from damaging your paint in 2 years you should take better care of your car. And even then, if you can damage paint in 2 years, that PPf is going to be damaged as well so further proving that the thousands of dollars spent is even more wasted.

We traded in a 15 year old Pontiac that had zero door dings and one small scratch. There were a few areas of marring but that was it and it was coated with wax until the last 4 years. Then it was a ceramic spray wax. I could have polished them all out but didn’t want thin the clear coat that much for a non show car.

 

[roadpilot]

"For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible."

- Ziad K. Abdelnour, Economic Warfare

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

"For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible."

- Ziad K. Abdelnour, Economic Warfare

Your quote definitely sums up your point of view

 

[DFB5.0]

Protecting something you own from getting damaged won't increase its resale value 2 years later? He's clearly not the only one that doesn't understand investments.

My 2017 Mustang GT is in better condition now than the day I drove it out the showroom.......................and that's without PPF. That's from careful and meticulous regular care over the course of 7 years. So yes, I know how investments work, and what's needed to keep a car looking its best. In my case, the car lives a sheltered life, and if the unforeseen happens, I know how to fix it. Put it this way, the car on the used market is worth about what I paid for it all those years ago.

PPF makes great sense for those who drive quite a bit but intend to keep the car beyond a typical lease period. Higher end sports cars would be a classic candidate for that.

My argument being that if the car is leased and will be replaced in two years, you are not going to get much value out of PPF. This is especially the case if it's not an enthusiast type vehicle, applying PPF to an Escape would be waste of money if the target used buyer won't notice the difference.

I guess what I'm saying is, PPF is great, but it's not always needed or the trouble free experience you might expect.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

My 2017 Mustang GT is in better condition now than the day I drove it out the showroom.......................and that's without PPF. That's from careful and meticulous regular care over the course of 7 years. So yes, I know how investments work, and what's needed to keep a car looking its best. In my case, the car lives a sheltered life, and if the unforeseen happens, I know how to fix it. Put it this way, the car on the used market is worth about what I paid for it all those years ago.

PPF makes great sense for those who drive quite a bit but intend to keep the car beyond a typical lease period. Higher end sports cars would be a classic candidate for that.

My argument being that if the car is leased and will be replaced in two years, you are not going to get much value out of PPF. This is especially the case if it's not an enthusiast type vehicle, applying PPF to an Escape would be waste of money if the target used buyer won't notice the difference.

I guess what I'm saying is, PPF is great, but it's not always needed or the trouble free experience you might expect.

That red really pops with a deep wet look. Did you get that from a high quality wax or is that a ceramic coating? I’ve never seen ceramic give that type of look, only a wax. I had a black truck that had that deep wet shine and I could only get that with a wax.

Sponsored