Any thoughts as to whether the ‘25s will be even more “connected” and “nannied up”than the ‘24s?

[Zig]

Nothing is certain but death and taxes.

I certainly wouldn’t mind eliminating one of those.

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[LETHAL]

Unenforceable. A LEO has to observe a speeding infraction and has to be able to ID the driver. Speeding tickets aren't issue to vehicles, they are issued to drivers.

Not to mention, we as cops, do NOT want this BS. Least I do not. Have enough to do without f;in cars calling us about SPEEDING.

 

[roadpilot]

I doubt it will be any more (or less) than 2024.

After all, if they want to do it on the 2024, that will likely take nothing more than a software update (OTA).

 

[roadpilot]

about the operator of the vehic

Depends on where you live. In the state of Virginia, where I may or may not have lived at some point (New York enforces similar laws), passed § 46.2-882.1., Use of photo speed monitoring devices in highway work zones, school crossing zones, and high-risk intersection segments. This section specifically states, in sub B: "A state or local law-enforcement agency may place and operate a photo speed monitoring device at a high-risk intersection segment located within the locality for the purpose of recording vehicle speed violations..."

And further, in sub C: "The operator of a vehicle shall be liable for a monetary civil penalty imposed pursuant to this section if such vehicle is found, as evidenced by information obtained from a photo speed monitoring device, to be traveling at speeds of at least 10 miles per hour above the posted speed limit in the zone monitored by the photo speed monitoring device. Such civil penalty shall not exceed $100, and any prosecution shall be instituted and conducted in the same manner as prosecution for traffic infractions." I should draw specific attention to the phrase "if the vehicle is found..." which means if you are the registered owner, and your car speeds through a trap, guess who gets the bill in their mailbox? Photo doesn't need to show the driver, at all. "But what about the operator of the vehicle?" Doesn't matter. The registered owner receives the citation in the mail. End of story.

Also notice the "infraction" part. You cannot be arrested for an infraction, alone, but you sure can receive a citation from hundreds/thousands of miles away, weeks later. Most infractions carry civil penalties, not criminal. Misdemeanor arrests require a person, citizen or LEO, to swear that a crime occurred in their presence. A felony arrest is entirely different, but I digress.

Enforcing speeding laws (the evidence of which would come from the vehicle itself, aka, the vehicle would swear that a crime occurred in its presence) is a matter of legislation; effectively create vehicle reporting laws similar to the existing camera laws and that's it, all done. Removing the LEO from the equation is already set precedent... something I may or may not have had a hard time accepting when it was my responsibility to enforce laws at one time or another.

You cited the actual verbiage of the law.

If the law clearly states, "The operator of a vehicle shall be liable ...", then how can they ticket a vehicle owner? That would be an easy win in court.

 

[roadpilot]

Not to mention, we as cops, do NOT want this BS. Least I do not. Have enough to do without f;in cars calling us about SPEEDING.

Used to get these calls once in a while. All we could do is tell dispatch to tell callers "Unless we witness it ...".

 

[Zig]

You cited the actual verbiage of the law.

If the law clearly states, "The operator of a vehicle shall be liable ...", then how can they ticket a vehicle owner? That would be an easy win in court.

Sshhh…

 

[Radiant]

You cited the actual verbiage of the law.

If the law clearly states, "The operator of a vehicle shall be liable ...", then how can they ticket a vehicle owner? That would be an easy win in court.

There's a fun story from back in 2017, where a lawyer (Adam MacLeod) defended himself against a red-light camera. On cross-examination the officer who signed the ticket confirms:

• He was not present at the time of the alleged violation.
• He has no photographic evidence of the driver.
• There were no witnesses.
• He does not know where Adam MacLeod was at the time of the alleged violation.

The lawyer asks: "So, you signed an affidavit under the pains and penalties of perjury alleging probable cause to believe that Adam MacLeod committed a violation of traffic laws without any evidence that was so?" - and the officer immediately answers yes!

 

[Zig]

There's a fun story from back in 2017, where a lawyer (Adam MacLeod) defended himself against a red-light camera. On cross-examination the officer who signed the ticket confirms:

• He was not present at the time of the alleged violation.
• He has no photographic evidence of the driver.
• There were no witnesses.
• He does not know where Adam MacLeod was at the time of the alleged violation.

The lawyer asks: "So, you signed an affidavit under the pains and penalties of perjury alleging probable cause to believe that Adam MacLeod committed a violation of traffic laws without any evidence that was so?" - and the officer immediately answers yes!

There is a game to be played which at times is better than the alternative.

 

[AlloyPony]

On a serious note, the new age “nannies” and tracking in these new cars does push me away a little bit. I mean, who buys a car like this with the intention of NEVER passing the speed limit or barking a tire or taking a curve with a little speed? My insurance agent offered me a “discount” if I’d download their app. I thought about it for 5 seconds and declined. I do not want anything watching me. I just want to enjoy my car. I bought it. I want to enjoy it the way I want.

Something honestly needs to be done about this invasion of privacy in our society. They are turning people into robots who always follow directions, and that steals all the fun and enjoyment out of life.

And this crap about having to pay a monthly fee to use features in the car? Are you kidding me?

I’m still eyeing a newer car but this kind of stuff really does dissuade me

 

[Sf22giants]

You cited the actual verbiage of the law.

If the law clearly states, "The operator of a vehicle shall be liable ...", then how can they ticket a vehicle owner? That would be an easy win in court.

Exactly, and yet it’s still enforced by municipalities all across the US. I don’t agree with it, but it happens anyway. Every traffic citation I ever wrote was my own. I signed it, I got paid overtime to show up to court, and I always swore the truth about what I witnessed.

While I don’t like the cameras, or personal vehicles transmitting data in real time about what a driver is doing, it’s still happening. Sure, there are stories about people fighting back and winning but the ever present digital collection/enforcement is still there.

 

[roadpilot]

There's a fun story from back in 2017, where a lawyer (Adam MacLeod) defended himself against a red-light camera. On cross-examination the officer who signed the ticket confirms:

• He was not present at the time of the alleged violation.
• He has no photographic evidence of the driver.
• There were no witnesses.
• He does not know where Adam MacLeod was at the time of the alleged violation.

The lawyer asks: "So, you signed an affidavit under the pains and penalties of perjury alleging probable cause to believe that Adam MacLeod committed a violation of traffic laws without any evidence that was so?" - and the officer immediately answers yes!

I renewed my motion to dismiss, which the judge immediately granted.

Aka the case was dismissed.

 

[LETHAL]

Used to get these calls once in a while. All we could do is tell dispatch to tell callers "Unless we witness it ...".

You will always get people that want to record plates or the act itself. This is no better. LOL

 

[roadpilot]

You will always get people that want to record plates or the act itself. This is no better. LOL

When in person, I told them, "You want to issue citations? Hit the academy first, then change careers!"

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