Horsepower wars and "how much is too much"?

[Stonehauler]

Going to start a topic that is sure to stir up the ire of some folks, but I am genuinely curious.

Over the past 30 years, we have seen an evolution in engine/motor/drivetrain design that has gone from where a powerful car was approaching 200 horsepower, to one where we have trucks and cars approaching or surpassing 500 HP. Some are even approaching 600 without getting into supercar territory. Even supercars are starting to blow by 1000 hp street legal cars being produced by the major manufacturer (not an upfitter)

Yes, one could argue that a nearly 5000 lb car of today at 500 hp is similar to an older 3000 lb car producing 300hp, and that is one metric that can be easily argued. Yet, we are also seeing performance (but non-supercars) today running 0-60 times (0-100 times for our metric friends), in the sub 4 second range (3.7, 3.3, etc.). These numbers are solid super or even hypercar territory from a decade or so ago. You even has sub 2 second cars. You even have mass market cars like the Camry(with the 3.5 from 2018-2024) that offered 300+ hp. and the entry level mustang of today has more HP than the cobra of 1997. Even work trucks have diesels that offer 500 hp and 1200 ft-lbs of torque

One of the things that allows these numbers is the adoption of AWD in many vehicles, that help put the power down "safely" for the average driver.


Don't get me wrong, I love the HP wars, and I have benefitted from them. My current car (without a tune) has over 500 hp and torque. But it's also had me start to wonder about "how much is too much" for the everyday driver. I am not talking about professional drivers, or even the enthusiast. but the average 20 year old, or 40-50 year old suffering a mid-life crisis, and neither of them having had any advanced driving courses.

That said, is there a line for HP in the real world? If so, where does it reside? In hp/ton? in top hp? Is the issue HP, or is it torque? Is it an acceleration limit? Is it something else?

I would love to hear your thoughts on it. Is there a line or not, and where is it? Is it a fuzzy line, or a hard line, or is it...I don't know how much is too much, but I know it when I drive it...

Looking forward to the discussion.

Sponsored

 

[Q6543]

Area dependent, I’m in SE Michigan, and it’s dream cruise week, there are probably more 13-1400HP cars on the street cruising here this weekend than anywhere else.
I know of several 2K HP plus vipers from Nth are usually in town.

That’s about the upper limits for us…. Low teens, the mid teen cars or better are exceptions for sure.

you can take any 20-up GT500 and slap a 3.8 whipple and a fuel system and make a fairly reliable 1200ish HP car over a weekend.

I know a few foxes rolling around in the mid teens are out here too.

my S650 is mid 800s and I don’t race anymore, to me it’s just “pretty quick” or a “nice cruiser”
But I know where I am, it’s not FAST fast.

 

[Zig]

How open is your road. Too much is usually relative to the application. What was the top speed of the first indy 500? Bricks to pavement plus progress same course. Time travel is relative to the perspective.

 

[Starship Enterprise]

To me, too much power is when the car can't handle it reliably and safely. If the car is uncontrollable under acceleration...etc.

EX: The Miata is loved not because it's a powerhouse, but because the power is a great match to the car.

For the Mustang, I'm enjoying my 486hp!

 

[Schullz]

Going to start a topic that is sure to stir up the ire of some folks, but I am genuinely curious.

Over the past 30 years, we have seen an evolution in engine/motor/drivetrain design that has gone from where a powerful car was approaching 200 horsepower, to one where we have trucks and cars approaching or surpassing 500 HP. Some are even approaching 600 without getting into supercar territory. Even supercars are starting to blow by 1000 hp street legal cars being produced by the major manufacturer (not an upfitter)

Yes, one could argue that a nearly 5000 lb car of today at 500 hp is similar to an older 3000 lb car producing 300hp, and that is one metric that can be easily argued. Yet, we are also seeing performance (but non-supercars) today running 0-60 times (0-100 times for our metric friends), in the sub 4 second range (3.7, 3.3, etc.). These numbers are solid super or even hypercar territory from a decade or so ago. You even has sub 2 second cars. You even have mass market cars like the Camry(with the 3.5 from 2018-2024) that offered 300+ hp. and the entry level mustang of today has more HP than the cobra of 1997. Even work trucks have diesels that offer 500 hp and 1200 ft-lbs of torque

One of the things that allows these numbers is the adoption of AWD in many vehicles, that help put the power down "safely" for the average driver.


Don't get me wrong, I love the HP wars, and I have benefitted from them. My current car (without a tune) has over 500 hp and torque. But it's also had me start to wonder about "how much is too much" for the everyday driver. I am not talking about professional drivers, or even the enthusiast. but the average 20 year old, or 40-50 year old suffering a mid-life crisis, and neither of them having had any advanced driving courses.

That said, is there a line for HP in the real world? If so, where does it reside? In hp/ton? in top hp? Is the issue HP, or is it torque? Is it an acceleration limit? Is it something else?

I would love to hear your thoughts on it. Is there a line or not, and where is it? Is it a fuzzy line, or a hard line, or is it...I don't know how much is too much, but I know it when I drive it...

Looking forward to the discussion.

The practical, real-world limit for everyday driving is a fuzzy threshold around 400–500 horsepower or a 10:1 weight-to-power ratio (lbs/HP), as beyond this, acceleration exceeds human reaction times and tire capacity on public roads. While instant torque often breaks traction faster than peak horsepower, the primary danger lies in managing excessive speed within environments that lack proper safety margins.

 

[Alex381]

I’ve always driven “fast” cars. My model 3 performance was the first car I drove that felt too fast. It was exhilarating to drive, but ultimate more speed than anyone actually needs. So I sold it and bought my second Mustang. The Mustang is plenty fast without being completely absurd. There is a point where cars simply have too much power, but a Mustang with 486hp at 4200lbs isn’t that.

 

[needforspeedirl]

I’ve always driven “fast” cars. My model 3 performance was the first car I drove that felt too fast. It was exhilarating to drive, but ultimate more speed than anyone actually needs. So I sold it and bought my second Mustang. The Mustang is plenty fast without being completely absurd. There is a point where cars simply have too much power, but a Mustang with 486hp at 4200lbs isn’t that.

The model 3 performance isn’t too fast. They especially struggle beyond 100 mph.

I guess you would say my Mustang is completely absurd since it has over 1000 hp and I’m just over here trying to figure out when and how much it’s going to cost to get it into the 3 second range 60-130 mph.

 

[Upacurb]

Area dependent, I’m in SE Michigan, and it’s dream cruise week, there are probably more 13-1400HP cars on the street cruising here this weekend than anywhere else.
I know of several 2K HP plus vipers from Nth are usually in town.

That’s about the upper limits for us…. Low teens, the mid teen cars or better are exceptions for sure.

you can take any 20-up GT500 and slap a 3.8 whipple and a fuel system and make a fairly reliable 1200ish HP car over a weekend.

I know a few foxes rolling around in the mid teens are out here too.

my S650 is mid 800s and I don’t race anymore, to me it’s just “pretty quick” or a “nice cruiser”
But I know where I am, it’s not FAST fast.

Super curious- with the radials how does your car hook up on the streets?
I drove an S550 Whippled A10 car but the tires were probably not the best option and it was pretty much not useable under 60MPH - and hopefully you quit racing but still go the track : )

To 95% of the population my car is fast
I know its slow - I have owned faster cars (and even those arent "fast")

Sponsored