The Kids Aren't Alright [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[LouG]

If someone had said to me in 1974 when I bought my first house for $25K and was earning around $5000 - $6000 pa, that I'd be a millionaire, ever, I would have laughed and called him a wanker.
Yet here we are, like most kiwis who have a house worth slightly more than average.
Here's the disgusting part, the last house we sold for a tad over a mil, we paid $600k for 5 years before. That's due to abjectly stupid policies adopted by both our main parties of Govt.
I would have been quite happy to have made less on it, and paid less for this one.
Only banks and Real Estate agents are doing well out of this situation.

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[LouG]

Theres so many reasons people my age are not having kids, and they're honestly very valid.

Both social and economic.

To be frank, the falling birthrate in the West could be the end of us. People who hate us are out reproducing us at an enormous rate.
I think those valid reasons won't look good if that happens.

 

[agreywolfe]

To be frank, the falling birthrate in the West could be the end of us. People who hate us are out reproducing us at an enormous rate.
I think those valid reasons won't look good if that happens.

1. That's kind of what happens when you spend a couple decades saying "overpopulation is going to be the end of us"
2. I wouldn't consider African nations to be our enemies. And our largest enemies have lower birth rates than we do.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Although I strongly disagree with the premise that "boomers are some of the worst offenders," I am curious to understand that perspective.

Because most boomers who accumulated wealth did so under a different set of rules. The consumer price index was significantly lower. Housing and cars were much cheaper realative to the pay scale. In 1950 a the average home cost 2-3 years you annual income. They had a lower cost of living relative to the pay scale of the times. It was way easier to work hard and get ahead than it is now.

Now these same people are all on government social security and medicare and bleeding the economy dry. Its estimated at 5% of the population uses 50% of the healthcare. Guess what age group is the worst offender? Spoiler alert, its not gen z or immigrants. Its 65+ seniors. Its making healthcare completely unaffordable thanks to Medicare and chronic conditions like heart disease and diabetes.

And this age group are some of the most demanding and entitled acting people you will ever encounter as a Healthcare worker. Its absolutely ridiculous how some of them act in a doctor's office.

Meanwhile they complain all the younger people are lazy while they have no concept of what current wages and housing expenses are for people coming out of college.

 

[erocker]

Do you suspect this is due to the lack of trying or misapplication of expertise?

Corruption.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

A big reason so many young people are in crippling debt and unemployed is because they get bullsh^t degrees that are useless in the real world. If its not a STEM degree, its not going to be terribly helpful.

The bullshit degree agreement is a popular myth. Sure there's some stupid ones, but you should look at how much student debt the average doctor has when they graduate medical school. Advanced degrees cost a ridiculous amount of money no matter what it is.

 

[Zig]

Corruption.

Is this because good men (general term and can’t believe i actually need to state thus) don’t stand up or is it they find they are outnumbered?

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

The bullshit degree agreement is a popular myth. Sure there's some stupid ones, but you should look at how much student debt the average doctor has when they graduate medical school. Advanced degrees cost a ridiculous amount of money no matter what it is.

I dont have to. I can just refer to my own experience, and that of all my colleagues. Every single one of my STEM friends, including myself, has found employment, and we are able to handle our debts without problems. Over half of my non STEM friends, if not more, are struggling. Wide range of schools, wide range of degrees.

I went through this and have plenty of real world references to pull from over the last 5 years.

Medical field is an outlier though, I dont know anybody who’s went through it besides nursing school. The nurses make bank though, a little jealous. Bad hours, but decent pay.

Advanced degrees may cost a lot of money, but they pay for themselves tenfold, especially if you do well and get grants.

 

[Wiley Marmot]

Now these same people are all on government social security and medicare and bleeding the economy dry. Its estimated at 5% of the population uses 50% of the healthcare. Guess what age group is the worst offender? Spoiler alert, its not gen z or immigrants. Its 65+ seniors. Its making healthcare completely unaffordable thanks to Medicare and chronic conditions like heart disease and diabetes.

And this age group are some of the most demanding and entitled acting people you will ever encounter as a Healthcare worker. Its absolutely ridiculous how some of them act in a doctor's office.

Meanwhile they complain all the younger people are lazy while they have no concept of what current wages and housing expenses are for people coming out of college.

Funny you should say that. Broke my right hip a few years ago and had to have it replaced. Too young for Medicare and didn't have any insurance. YES.................it was expensive!

Interestingly though; as I was a "self payer"....................I negotiated with the hospital, anesthesiologist (can't believe I spelled that right) and surgeon, and they all gave me a 40% discount off the top because they didn't have to **** with a HC insurance company or Medicare.

About 90 days into my rehab I was in the surgeon's office for a recovery eval. Doc and his PA told me I was doing better at 90 days than any of his other patients. A few seconds later Doc says; (paraphrasing) "you know; now that I think of it; I've got about 3 dozen patients (never saw any other patients in the office who weren't Boomers) and you're the only one who isn't AT LEAST 100 LBS OVERWEIGHT AND DIABETIC (I'm 6' 2"/185)." Yea. I can see where that might slow down recovery from a joint replacement.

One last thought. I'm fairly sure bad habits, attitudes, and entitled feelings are more an individual issue than generational. The same as good habits, attitudes, and habits.

 

[smurfslayer]

That's the wishful thinking of a decade ago, there's Harvard and Brown STEM grads who can't even get a job.

Post 10/7, the US Ivy league schools, among others, wholeheartedly embraced antisemitism. I have a really close friend working in public policy, he's Jewish, and his observations sort of echoed mine as a non-Jewish type; The veil is off and hating Jews is now ok. This conversation was not long after 10/7.

It's not just worthless degrees, or a tough employment market, it's hiring managers making a list and checking it twice, finding out who's been naughty and who's been nice.

 

[NegativeMultiplier]

This is going to be a much more identifying post than I'm particularly comfortable with, but...

Houses and cars are going up faster than salaries.........

I'm almost 51- and was talking with my Dad this weekend about houses.........he was mentioning how crazy it is that my our family household income is higher then his ever was (inflation adjusted) yet we are not able to comfortably afford a house the same size as his......

I forget the exact numbers but when you put it in an inflation calculator - the house they bought in 1987 for 290K would be worth just over 800K .....

Actual value today .... 2.2 Million ...skipping Starbucks wont make up that gap......

Overseas investors...... Large companies buying up houses as investments......I was on the HOA board for a while and just in our neighborhood a portion of the houses are owned by one company as rental house investments.....

I do have more hope that at least some kids are willing to put in the work......both of our daughters spend more time studying then I ever did and have the grades to show for it.....and they have friends the same way......

This is a huge part of why Gen Z is struggling. Most properties that exist that would be perfect first-time buyer material for Gen Z are out of reach because they're being sold or held as investment property, and rent or the sale price is extremely high as a result.

I'm extremely fortunate to be in the position I'm in, but that statement in itself is exactly the point I want to make. I busted my buns to get here, and even still required a significant amount of luck, and dare I say, divine intervention. I am the exception, not the rule. My field of work (in STEM) is so incredibly oversaturated right now that of everyone I know from my graduating class, I'm probably one of three people who found stable employment post-ed.

A big reason so many young people are in crippling debt and unemployed is because they get bullsh^t degrees that are useless in the real world. If its not a STEM degree, its not going to be terribly helpful.

With that being said, the cost of living and being able to afford a house is very difficult nowadays when 1/2 of your paycheck goes towards rent.

I know people paying as much as 2,000 a month.

There are two sides to this coin. I agree with you - there are a lot of BS degrees that are, or at least were, being chosen in the last decade or so that are completely useless. However as I just mentioned the whole job market is garbage right now. I only just squeaked into this industry, and I had to bend the truth a little bit and then push unbelievably hard to get here. Everyone around me is envious, and it's not like they're not putting in the work.

As for the house payment part, that's a consequence of the current state of the economy - specifically looking at rates for things like mortgages. You're going to see 2,000+/month rent prices when monthly ownership cost isn't much less than that. I don't rent - again, I am the exception, not the rule - but my monthly housing cost isn't terribly far off this number...

Have you heard Jim Farley talk on the subject? He can't get fill 5000 trade jobs that pay $120/yr.

https://nypost.com/2025/11/14/busin...0k-per-year-we-are-in-trouble-in-our-country/

And Mike Rowe has been one of the foremost outspoken on the topic, and doing everything they can to promote the trades. But there is something wrong with GenZ, they don't want to do it. There are thousands upon thousands of trade jobs unfilled right now. Oil companies doing big signons, even local plumber businesses here in Houston offering 5k signons.

There might be pockets of GenZ kids that are workers, but it's not the majority. Should watch some of Mike Rowe (from dirty jobs) podcasts on the topic.

It's actually pretty concerning, because once GenX is out of it, and what millennials are doing it, it's going to be a nightmare. The unfilled jobs that GenZ should be filling right now, are not being filled. Could literally go grab a 120k/yr job with ford right now, but they won't.,

And my personal experience with them (i own several businesses) is that they don't want to work. My son in law, store manager of autozone, has GenZ kids bail on work days all the time. They will literally apply, get the job, and not even show up for day 1. Or they show up for a week, and then play the games with HR. if they do show up for work, they are lazy af.

I'm not trying to ignorantly blanket statement the GenZ generation, but there is something going on with that generation and it's not good. It could (already is?) become a very big problem for the USA.

I have mixed thoughts on this. On one hand, Farley said that those jobs pay up to 120k per annum. As to what that means is entirely dependent on the hiring manager. The people who could earn that sort of compensation out of the gate are likely grossly overqualified for the position; I wouldn't expect 19 year old Jimothy who doesn't know what a shift lever is to qualify for the full salary. And sure, he could go and get the qualifications, but at what cost? Does he have the money? And once he has the prerequisites, what's to say that job market won't also become extremely saturated, or that specific job or an equivalent will still be there?

On the other hand, at least it's something, and I know personally that if I was struggling to find work, I would apply despite having very little practical mechanical knowledge. Even if I was only offered half that number, 60k/yr is better than 0.

Are there things younger people could be doing differently? Yes, absolutely, but a lot of the things being done right now are reactionary, to a pre-existing system that has been screwing with fate, if I may refer to it as such for a moment, since before some were even an idea in their parents' minds. There is a way up and out, but as it goes, for every one person who can break free there will be a thousand others on which they had to stand on their shoulders - or bodies.

I have hope for the future - I don't think things will stay this way forever. I do think it's at least partially unfair to Gen Z to say that it's their fault entirely for the current situation.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

One last thought. I'm fairly sure bad habits, attitudes, and entitled feelings are more an individual issue than generational. The same as good habits, attitudes, and habits.

Exactly right. Which is why demonizing an entire generation (boomers or Gen z) is pretty silly.

For as long as I can remember the older generation has alsways vilified the youngest generation as lazy. The greatest generation called boomers lazy. Boomers call literally every generation lazy lol. Gen X called millennials lazy. And now we're on to Gen Z who im sure will look down on the generation comes after.

Its all bias and a disconnect as times change. We can have conversations about work ethic. But the bottom line is, im glad im not in my 20s trying to earn a decent wage while paying off student debt, pay rent, or start a family in this economy. Its just not the same as ot was 20 or 30 years ago. The rich are richer, the poor are poorer, and the middle class isn't comfortable anymore.

 

[Frogdog1]

Look at Farley's education. Somebody was helping him pay for all that. He had a good network before he ever finished all those degrees. That didn't hurt his career.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

You can be anything you want if you work and use the opportunities that are available to you.

For every one of those opportunities you don't take, and for every day you don't work another door will close until there are no doors left.

Not true. Not everyone is CAPABLE of doing everything. Some people have a lower ceiling for learning as example. They're not bad, lazy or "dumb." They just don't have that capability. The same way some cannot interact well with people. Some of these things can be altered with hard work. But somethings are inherent. Genetics or something else.

 

[GeekGT5.0]

This is going to be a much more identifying post than I'm particularly comfortable with, but...


This is a huge part of why Gen Z is struggling. Most properties that exist that would be perfect first-time buyer material for Gen Z are out of reach because they're being sold or held as investment property, and rent or the sale price is extremely high as a result.

I'm extremely fortunate to be in the position I'm in, but that statement in itself is exactly the point I want to make. I busted my buns to get here, and even still required a significant amount of luck, and dare I say, divine intervention. I am the exception, not the rule. My field of work (in STEM) is so incredibly oversaturated right now that of everyone I know from my graduating class, I'm probably one of three people who found stable employment post-ed.


There are two sides to this coin. I agree with you - there are a lot of BS degrees that are, or at least were, being chosen in the last decade or so that are completely useless. However as I just mentioned the whole job market is garbage right now. I only just squeaked into this industry, and I had to bend the truth a little bit and then push unbelievably hard to get here. Everyone around me is envious, and it's not like they're not putting in the work.

As for the house payment part, that's a consequence of the current state of the economy - specifically looking at rates for things like mortgages. You're going to see 2,000+/month rent prices when monthly ownership cost isn't much less than that. I don't rent - again, I am the exception, not the rule - but my monthly housing cost isn't terribly far off this number...


I have mixed thoughts on this. On one hand, Farley said that those jobs pay up to 120k per annum. As to what that means is entirely dependent on the hiring manager. The people who could earn that sort of compensation out of the gate are likely grossly overqualified for the position; I wouldn't expect 19 year old Jimothy who doesn't know what a shift lever is to qualify for the full salary. And sure, he could go and get the qualifications, but at what cost? Does he have the money? And once he has the prerequisites, what's to say that job market won't also become extremely saturated, or that specific job or an equivalent will still be there?

On the other hand, at least it's something, and I know personally that if I was struggling to find work, I would apply despite having very little practical mechanical knowledge. Even if I was only offered half that number, 60k/yr is better than 0.

Are there things younger people could be doing differently? Yes, absolutely, but a lot of the things being done right now are reactionary, to a pre-existing system that has been screwing with fate, if I may refer to it as such for a moment, since before some were even an idea in their parents' minds. There is a way up and out, but as it goes, for every one person who can break free there will be a thousand others on which they had to stand on their shoulders - or bodies.

I have hope for the future - I don't think things will stay this way forever. I do think it's at least partially unfair to Gen Z to say that it's their fault entirely for the current situation.

I just don't have the empathy for the laziness. You wanna make it in this world, you better get out there and hussle. I had my first child at 16, 2nd at 18, 3rd by 20. I came from a lower middle class single dad.

I don't wanna hear "wah wah houses cost to much" sure, but I can find you 10 condos, 10 townhomes tomorrow that are under 100k to buy in the houston area, and If you have even a little skill I'll find you a 60k job. You can easily afford a house under 100k on 60k. You don't make excuses in life, you just figure out what works for you and get it done.

Other things, if you starting out get your bills as cheap as possible. No you don't need an iphone, you just need a cheap pre-paid phone, etc, etc. Anyone can go work for Autozone and in 2-3 years be a store manager making 60-80k/yr. You literally need no skills to start at autozone and it's a decent company to work for.

But this idea that it's just not possible today, i call BS on. My son in law is doing it, 3 kids, store manager at autozone, bought his house for 120. Oh yeah, child tax credits help, that tax return of his is phat. You gotta be smart and play the game well.

learn how to invest properly
learn how to manage a household budget and stick to it.
learn who Jesus is, and how life will be misery without him. (Romans 10:9)

here's the deal. Life is full of pain. You can either have the pain of discipline now, or the pain of regret later. Your choice.

But what I'm not going to do, is give self-centered, selfish, godless, entitled, lazy generations excuses of why to go sit on their butts. Who cares if big houses are 400k, don't buy one, but cheaper. You want cheaper? buy a single or double wide and buy a small plot some where.


I have a friend who started from nothing and started an HVAC company after working for another for 5 years. He started with nothing, no skills, they trained him, everything, he now clears over 1m a year.

I have another friend that is a welder, works at the boat yards, clears 200k/yr, another bud owns a plumbing business and yet another owns a roofing company. ALL started from nothing. Just had the hustle to get it done.

So yeah, i call BS on all these excuses people are making. We have a saying in Houston, it's "If you don't have a job it's because you don't want one".


But crying out loud stop thinking working at some retail place is the way to start out! Retail jobs suck, get a trade and goto town. Learn it, live it, breath it, work somewhere for 2-5 years and start your own business. It's not rocket science. Anyone with a hustle attitude can be a millionaire in 8-10 years.

This is freakin' America.

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