TYRE COMPARISON: Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S vs Pirelli P Zero PZ4

[OzzieRoss]

Interesting Tyre Comparison, if real-world accurate, it would seem the P Zero has improved.
Pilot Sport 4 S VS P Zero PZ4 - Tyre reviews and ratings

I guess the attached screenshot (from the tyre comparison quoted) shows clearly why FOMOCO chose the Pirelli over the Michelin tyre - it improves their profit!

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[npole]

Like many of you, got burned in the past with Pirelli, so by years I was using the PS4S (with a failed test with the PS5 in the middle), but got the S650 with stock PZ4, it's a different gen so you can't compare the two, but honestly they doesn't look that bad, they also seems to perform better while cold.. I will probably going back to PS4S when it'll be time, but for now they are performing fine.

 

[Gregs24]

Like many of you, got burned in the past with Pirelli, so by years I was using the PS4S (with a failed test with the PS5 in the middle), but got the S650 with stock PZ4, it's a different gen so you can't compare the two, but honestly they doesn't look that bad, they also seems to perform better while cold.. I will probably going back to PS4S when it'll be time, but for now they are performing fine.

Agree the PZ4 is absolutely fine and very little difference between it and the PS4S. I would use the Continental SportContact 7 which were a step up from the PS4S on my S550 when it comes to replacement.

 

[npole]

I want to add, while they comparable with the PS4S on a dry road and while they actually perform a little better while cold, they are nowhere near the PS4S on the wet roads: wheelspin is a thing, even in mid-gears if you push it (that is a little counterintuitive if you think that they are better in the cold), it must be because the PS4S have more efficient rain channels.

 

[DFB5.0]

I want to add, while they comparable with the PS4S on a dry road and while they actually perform a little better while cold, they are nowhere near the PS4S on the wet roads: wheelspin is a thing, even in mid-gears if you push it (that is a little counterintuitive if you think that they are better in the cold), it must be because the PS4S have more efficient rain channels.

I know it was a previous generation P-Zero, but it was the wet and/or cold road conditions that I felt made the Pirelli's sketchy. Even gently letting the clutch out would have the rears chattering.

 

[Gregs24]

I want to add, while they comparable with the PS4S on a dry road and while they actually perform a little better while cold, they are nowhere near the PS4S on the wet roads: wheelspin is a thing, even in mid-gears if you push it (that is a little counterintuitive if you think that they are better in the cold), it must be because the PS4S have more efficient rain channels.

Rain channels only disperse water to prevent aquaplaning. The compound is what matters for grip.

 

[npole]

It's related, faster the water goes away, less water film will form, anyway whatever it is, they also perform a little better while cold (that you won't expect)... so it's specifically related to the water.

 

[Gregs24]

It's related, faster the water goes away, less water film will form, anyway whatever it is, they also perform a little better while cold (that you won't expect)... so it's specifically related to the water.

RN86597218.doc

An interesting read on tyre compounds

 

[npole]

Yeah, but normally when a tyre is designed to perform good at lower temperatures is usually also better in the rain, since it's designed aiming to a certain thermal factor, it's the concept between the winter tyre VS summer tyre, so the compound and the tread (and the overall manufacture) are aiming to that. With that I've experienced with the PZ4 is (as mentioned in the previous post) "counterintuitive": they performs good (on pair or so with the PS4S) on a dry road when in temperature, they performs good on a cold climate (a little better than the PS4S), but they doesn't perform good specifically on the wet. So compound apart, there must be something else playing in the balance, otherwise they would perform not that great when cold, or versus they would perform good also in the rain (ie: softer compound).

 

[keithwalton]

I have noticed on the cooler wetter days it's easier to break traction and get a bit loose. Especially after driving through 20mph zones and they cool off.
They soon warm back up and bite again after the first slippery moment.

I have mich SuperSports on the M5 and they were excellent (the 4S kinda replaced them but slightly lower tier, and the cup 2 was above them)

I did have to replace one of them due to pothole damage and all i could get was a conti sport contact 6, the michs had 5k miles on them at the time.
Performance wise there was little in it between the two.
When i sold the car 5k miles later the conti had less tread (3mm) remaining on it than the michs (4mm) despite half the mileage on the same car.

Hopefully mich will release the S5 in our tyre size(s) eventually.

 

[npole]

I hope they just improve the 4S, not changing everything, as mentioned in a previous post, I did the mistake of trying the PS5 (non "sport"/"super"), and it run away: perform less than the 4S when new, the thread last more than the 4S but with more thread after 15.000Km they perform worse than a "finished" 4S. Overall: they perform worse when new and also after a certain mileage. Total crap (at least on a Mustang).

 

[Deano1978]

The road surface plays a big role in this gripping conversation

Grip/traction is related to the microtexture of the individual stones that make up the surface i.e. how "rough" the stone is under a microscope

Water dispersion/aquaplaning is related to the macrotexture of the surface i.e. how far the stone sticks up above the binder holding it in place.

In Aus, microtexture is measured on roads with a machine that measures the Sideways Force Co-efficient normalised to 50km/h (SFC50). The higher the number the "grippier" the surface is.

Macrotexture is measured via either a laser profiler mounted to a vehicle that surveys the road at speeds up to 110kph and it's reported in mm. The higher the macrotexture, the less likely you are to aquplane.

Different types of asphalt/concrete surfaces are specifically designed for the type of environment they need to operate in. E.g. in high speed environments (>80kph) macro texture is more important as preventing aquaplaning is key to safety, so we use surface types with high macrotexture.

In low speed environments (<=80kph) microtexture is more important for safety as the tyres are generally still in contact with the surface. So on intersection approaches and departures on most state controlled roads a high microtexture aggregate is often used in the surface as a safety measure.

You can imagine it like a boat, at low speed in displacement mode it's pushing through the water, as speed increases it starts to plane and skim the surface more. It's the same concept for cars/trucks.

Councils don't generally switch surface types cause cause it costs too much and they have trouble making ends meet as it is.

SO, all this goes into the bucket that determines whether PZ4's or PS4S' perform better in addition to tread pattern and compound. In everyday driving chances are you'll drive over several different surface types, some will be more "grippy" than others.

 

[npole]

They are compared on the same road of course (I know exactly where to skid and the grip on every section in any weather condition).
The difference playing here is also the vehicle (that can be a major factor as well, as anticipated in my first post): the PS4S (and the PS5) were all used on the S550, the PZ4 have been tested (by me) only on the S650, so I can make a honest comparison only when I'll mount the PS4S back (or the PSS5 if they'll be available by the time) on the current car.
So far, as said (with all the premises mentioned above), the PZ4 are performing very similar to the PS4S, a little better when they are cold, BUT on the wet they are a step behind.

 

[Gregs24]

Yeah, but normally when a tyre is designed to perform good at lower temperatures is usually also better in the rain, since it's designed aiming to a certain thermal factor, it's the concept between the winter tyre VS summer tyre, so the compound and the tread (and the overall manufacture) are aiming to that. With that I've experienced with the PZ4 is (as mentioned in the previous post) "counterintuitive": they performs good (on pair or so with the PS4S) on a dry road when in temperature, they performs good on a cold climate (a little better than the PS4S), but they doesn't perform good specifically on the wet. So compound apart, there must be something else playing in the balance, otherwise they would perform not that great when cold, or versus they would perform good also in the rain (ie: softer compound).

But as the document mentioned some compounds work in different ways so wet and dry performance doesn't always match warm v cold performance, and obviously mixtures of compounds don't behave in a linear way either.

A tyre can be good in the cold and rain (winter tyres are a good example) because of the compounds used but you can have good in the wet and warm. You really can't use broad brush strokes like soft and harder compounds either, the wear rate of the PS4S is about half the Continental SportContact 7 as Keith mentioned and yet they are similar for grip / performance

The compounds are incredibly complex and the combinations of compounds have complex interactions.

 

[npole]

The compound is strictly related to the temperature (none have reinvented the wheel.. as of yet), so when you compare two tires and you see that they are equally performing in the "hot", but one is performing a little better than the other in the "cold", you expect (that's why i said "counterintuitive") that the latter will equally perform a little better in the rain (because of the temperature), IF it was just about the compound, so you can't say that the tread design isn't playing a role here (or at least that's what I think).
But again, since we're talking about two vehicles (S550 vs S650) I may find that the S650 has the suspension tuned differently (ie: more rigid) and it's all about the car mechanics than the tires, and so I may find that the PS4S will equally perform "worse" in the wet (if compared with my previous experience), if mounted on this car (I will find when I'll change em). Can't say more than what I've experienced so far... the rest is merely speculations.

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