Michelin PS4S Cracked and Ruined!

[Junkyard Dog]

I worked for a rubber compounding company who makes the gum used on tire tread for all the big players, I can tell you compounds for warm weather tires failed the cold flexometer and durometer tests much faster than compouinds designed for cold, and for the reverse cold weather compounds in the heat, they break down quick. Fozen summer compounds crack and chunk, winter compounds tend to ball up in warm weather, similar to what youd seen on a worn nascar tire.

Now we know who to go to for the deeper technical "why" questions. Thanks for disclosing your expertise in this area. You never know who is participating in a discussion forum.

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[Junkyard Dog]

I worked for a rubber compounding company who makes the gum used on tire tread for all the big players, I can tell you compounds for warm weather tires failed the cold flexometer and durometer tests much faster than compouinds designed for cold, and for the reverse cold weather compounds in the heat, they break down quick. Fozen summer compounds crack and chunk, winter compounds tend to ball up in warm weather, similar to what youd seen on a worn nascar tire.


Summer tires are for warm temps and warm pavement, turn into hockey pucks in the cold

Winter tires remain flexible in the cold and cold pavement, sipes help snow stick to the treads but turn into bubble gum on warm days. You need the sipes to get snow to sick to the tire, snow on snow is where your snow traction is and you need the sipes for that... guess what summer tires dont have? Ice requires the rubber to be flexible to offer whatever grip it can to help the silica compound get more surface area for grip, guess what summer tires dont so when they are cold?

All weather tires are the knowers of all, master of nothing

All season arent amazing at anything and should be called 3 season because they do all 3 seasons well, but not excellent. In Ontario they tend to be boirderline useless from December-March once the snow depth exceeds the tread depth, I do find a good performance tired AS can be better than a summer only in heavy rain or standing water (hydro plane) simply because they have more grooves and water evautation in mind.

Go take a hockey puck and warm it up to 20-30C and slide it on a hard floor... now go put it in your freezer over night then do the same test. Your tires are no different and also the same reason hockey pucks are kept cold for use prior to the ice since they want them to slide.

By any chance, have you had a chance to watch this guy's testing of summer and winter tires on cold pavement at 24 and 26 degrees Fahrenheit (-3.3 and -4.4, for you Canadians)? Unfortunately, he did not test all seasons, but the results of what he did test were ironic:
https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/threads/cold-weather-and-winter-tires.172905/#post-3453596

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I haven't ever had Sport Cup 2s, but the Trofeos get ridiculously slippery at 50 degrees! I am about to replace mine. I was thinking about the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, so I would like to hear if anybody has had this cracking issue that everybody on the internet is sure will happen. If anybody has, then I would like to hear about the conditions to see if they are similar to conditions I experience here in Georgia in the winter. I would probably never drive this Dark Horse, or the PS4, in the snow. I would take the Explorer for that (AWD and all season tires).

Hopeful maybe we actually get some snow this year. My kids get so excited.

Mounted today.

Drove home at 47 degrees.

They were fine, even when pushed a little. Of course, this was 47 degrees. We'll see what happens when it is colder. Hopefully no cracking or sliding to my death.

Since I ran PS4S on my Audi for years including wintertime, without having any issues (but I did not know about any issues until I found this forum). I suspect they will be fine based on my past experience. Also, I live in Georgia. Winter temperatures are pretty mild compared to most of you in other parts of the world and the USA. We get some cold snaps (it was in the 20s a few days ago), but most of the winter is simply not like that.

 

[Aggie1999]

I had looked at those, but the 305 size is almost half an inch shorter than my stock tire, and they do not have a 315 size. I might have been able to get away with the 325, but it is a lot wider than the stock tire, and the stock wheel size is the minimum recommended for that width.

The PS4S 315 recommends the stock wheel width as right in the middle of the recommended range.

So I pulled the trigger on the Michelin rather than hoping the fitment works out with the Continental. Installing them today.

Huh?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Huh?

I have 19 inch wheels (stock Ford Dark Horse HP wheels)

 

[TVMADoc]

PS4S stands for Pilot Sport 4S.

Do you drive on them? If so, have you experienced cracking as a result of cold temperatures?

I have driven on them over several winters and have experienced nothing of that sort, in spite of all the online speculation and hand wringing.

What about you? Have you driven them in cold weather, below 7° Celsius (about 45° Fahrenheit)? What happened?

I've had Pilot Sport 4S on my S2000 and M3. I'm in No Cal, where temp regularly gets into mid 30s. I haven't had any cracking while using them on either car for at least several years.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Mounted today.

Drove home at 47 degrees.

They were fine, even when pushed a little. Of course, this was 47 degrees. We'll see what happens when it is colder. Hopefully no cracking or sliding to my death.

Since I ran PS4S on my Audi for years including wintertime, without having any issues (but I did not know about any issues until I found this forum). I suspect they will be fine based on my past experience. Also, I live in Georgia. Winter temperatures are pretty mild compared to most of you in other parts of the world and the USA. We get some cold snaps (it was in the 20s a few days ago), but most of the winter is simply not like that.

4 days in, damp, foggy, high 30s, low 40s, and the predictions of dangerous slipperiness have been greatly exaggerated. They are performing like my expectations from having used them over several winters on an AWD Audi would have lead me to expect. Obviously, they are a huge improvement over the Pirelli tires in this weather.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I have to commence a journey tomorrow on my relatively new PS4S Michelins when the weather report says it will be 32° F (0° C) for a several hour window of time.

If this is my last post, then I did not make it. The dangerous tires killed me.

If I am merely injured I promise to come back and post about it.

 

[smurfslayer]

I have to commence a journey tomorrow on my relatively new PS4S Michelins when the weather report says it will be 32° F (0° C) for a several hour window of time.

If this is my last post, then I did not make it. The dangerous tires killed me.

If I am merely injured I promise to come back and post about it.

Dibs on your Mustang.

 

[Ewags81]

Dibs on your Mustang

i'll take the wheel and tire package for a decent price

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Heading out - temperature has dropped to 30°

 

[Westphal]

It was 19 degrees up here in Maryland, wife drove her Mustang to work. Luckily, it resides in the garage at home, so the car was at least 40 degrees at startup.

 

[smurfslayer]

Man... I hope y'all are quoting Celcius temps.

 

[Westphal]

Nope, that was in Fahrenheit.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

So I had a long day yesterday. it was 30° F when I departed in the morning and 32° when I arrived at my destination in a neighboring state. It was up in the 40s for the evening return trip.

In all seriousness, the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S "Max Performance Summer" tires performed very well in freezing temperatures. I even pushed it some through turns and in braking (some, not like on a track or anything) and with giving it some gas pedal at intersections when making a right or left turn. The tires had plenty of grip.

At least down to 30° F, the fears of slipperiness did not materialize with these summer tires.

I will add a couple of caveats here. First, these tires are new. We'll see whether this assessment remains after the tires get some age on them and more exposure to winter temperatures (cold cycles?). Second, we do not really get snow here. If we did, I would not have purchased these tires in December.

Georgia is in a weird weather area. If it is humid, it is warm. If it is cold, it is dry. Cold comes down from Canada, and the air has dumped all of its moisture in the form of snow long before it gets here. So when the weather report predicts 25° F, you can bet 99% of the time it is going to be cold but dry.

Humid weather comes up from the gulf. It brings moisture, but also warmer temperatures. This is what is happening most of the time in "storms" we get here in Georgia.

Snow requires moisture and cold together, and we just do not really get that in Georgia.

I did not check for cracking yet.

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