Dark Horse SC in Richmond VA at Richmond Ford West $176,000 ($71k in options)

[robvas]

Realistically, they start at $108k, if you can find a dealer willing to let one go without ADM right now. To me the base price should have started in the 90ks and I was willing to put down $100k for one. More than that and I'd get something more upscale, even if it costs a lot more. Again, the value just isn't here for me. You can look at my signature and the vehicles I own and have owned, I'm not a hater by any means. It's a cool car, just not as cool to me as Ford seems to think it is.

It's better than paying another $50k on top of that for anything Shelby of America sells!

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[Ninjak]

23-30k isn't low mileage for a 2023? That's what, 8k miles a year?

Looking at 2023 Broncos there are a ton of 70 and 60k mileage examples for sale. So 20-30k miles is low mileage. We're not looking for a 4k car that's never been driven.

Hmm argument has shifted to 'Broncos" now. I thought we were talking about Raptors? Also, no, I am not buying a vehicle in the 60k~90k range with 20~30k miles on it. Maybe that is fine for you, but not for me. 15k and under is acceptable. For me. All others can do how they please.

Any tuner will tell you to expect 100whp less than he's making if you are on strait 93...and he's on a Mustang dyno which normally comes in even lower. Look at the results other people have posted here (and the on the rest of the internet). It's just how engines work. They're all on the same Whipple tune. Same blower. Same pulley. So when someone says they are making 820-something on 93 it raises eyebrows...All dynos read different and some are more different than others.

Lol. Ok. You do know CUSTOM tuning is now available. Also, do you understand that there are different levels of the Whipple setup? There is stage 1, (Ford Warranty), stage 2 (Not Ford warranty). Stage 2 has different components than stage 1. This, combined with other parts, is the reason you can get to 800RWHP WITHOUT octane boost juice.

I live near PBD. I've seen many cars on this dyno, and talked to Ken numerous times. These setups and numbers are from a STAGE 1 FULLY STOCK, SANS WHIPPLE setup. KEY WORDS: STOCK. The Whipple stage 1 tune is built to go on a stock Mustang -F150 and has many safeguards tuned into it. The stage 2 tune could get you to 750+ or higher depending on fuel quality, but even then it is lacking from a dyno tune. Yes, a Mustang dyno reads lower; it's not called the heartbreaker for nothing, but again, with a proper setup, 800+ on S550' S650 is not some pie-in-the-sky unreachable goal on 93. You will need what was in his list, and a proper tune. My list:
Kooks 1-7/8 headers
Performance 3' connection pipe. (NO CATS)-Safety)
Corsa Double H resonator 3' pipe
112 TB
3.75 pulley
Upgraded Fuel pumps. (safety)
OPG gears (safety)
CF Driveshaft (Setup for Rad course, but meh, I received a great deal on it)

Again, if you owned the vehicle you are trying to speak on, you (may) have understood this. Yet again, you run out and cherry-pick some videos and hand it off as fact.

Nobody's forcing views. Where's that Shelby racing information you're supposed to be getting?

The Shelby GT350 T/A I spoke on was just built. I am sure there will be data on it soon enough from someone. The same way there is no data on the DHSC now. It will come along as well once people get their hands on it. The Shelby admitantly may take longer, but there will be info.

Also, since you wanted to pop up how Shelby of America is not building the GT350 T/A, well Hmm who builds the GTD? Is it still a Ford? Lol, yet again, cherry-picking information to prove something is not having a valid point to begin with.

 

[robvas]

Lol. Ok. You do know CUSTOM tuning is now available. Also, do you understand that there are different levels of the Whipple setup? There is stage 1, (Ford Warranty), stage 2 (Not Ford warranty). Stage 2 has different components than stage 1.

Sigh....that video is PBD custom tuning a Stage 2 Whipple S650...why do you think I brought it up?

This, combined with other parts, is the reason you can get to 800RWHP WITHOUT octane boost juice.

No, you can't. Go ahead and link me to one making over 800whp on straight 93, I'll wait. Look up what octane-limited means. You need more octane than 93 will give you, or misconfigured dyno. That means a reputable shop, SAE dynojet numbers, no e85, no octane booster, no race gas...No hub dyno in a random garage, no "my buddy said..."

You made 800 right? Post your dyno video.

who builds the GTD? Is it still a Ford? Lol, yet again, cherry-picking information to prove something is not having a valid point to begin with.

No kidding. We've been over that a million times. Ford doesn't build the GTD, Multimatic does. And nobody's talking about the GTD. Got smoked by the much cheaper Corvette ZR1 anyway. Do you own a GTD? If not why are you even talking about it?

 

[Ninjak]

No, you can't. Go ahead and link me to one making over 800whp on straight 93, I'll wait. Look up what octane-limited means. You need more octane than 93 will give you, or misconfigured dyno. That means a reputable shop, SAE dynojet numbers, no e85, no octane booster, no race gas...No hub dyno in a random garage, no "my buddy said..."

1. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1D7tGHgbcZ/ Hellion Turbo Kit.
2. https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/th...ercharged-2024-mustang-gt-on-the-dyno.159985/
3.
This has a full tank of 93, did get some Octane Boost

Even if you want to get hung up on 800+ wheel, this number can be affected by weather and various other factors. The point still remains that it can be done, hero run or not. The other point is that you are not going to live in that HP range, but I will come back to your "anything above 750 is sketchy" comment and say I would disagree.

 

[robvas]

1. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1D7tGHgbcZ/ Hellion Turbo Kit.
2. https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/th...ercharged-2024-mustang-gt-on-the-dyno.159985/
3.
This has a full tank of 93, did get some Octane Boost

Even if you want to get hung up on 800+ wheel, this number can be affected by weather and various other factors. The point still remains that it can be done, hero run or not. The other point is that you are not going to live in that HP range, but I will come back to your "anything above 750 is sketchy" comment and say I would disagree.

That's not a Whipple car. And it has "some octane boost"

You know that Turbo cars make more than supercharged cars because they don't have to drive the supercharger right?

You're terrible at this.

 

[Ninjak]

That's not a Whipple car. And it has "some octane boost"

You know that Turbo cars make more than supercharged cars because they don't have to drive the supercharger right?

You're terrible at this.

Umm.. the second car is a Whipple car, and it's a thread in this forum. Yes, I know how turbos work. I have a turbo vehicle sitting in my driveway. Tuned btw.

By the by, you said ANY BOOSTED 6gMustang...or at least that was what was being discussed. Now it has to be a specific WHIPPLE car.....

Moving those goalposts....But you're right. I am terrible at this. I am actually going to enjoy my slow, non-living @800 rwhp full-rip non-track timed car. It's a nice day. Or maybe I'll hop in the 68. Either way, you win, I lose. Enjoy.

 

[robvas]

The Whipple car has an entire can of octane booster in it. Hopeless you are.

And where do I say any boosted car? You're putting words in my mouth.

You're 0 for 2 here you should go for a ride.

 

[Achlys]

Gas guzzler TAX?

 

[smurfslayer]

Umm.. the second car is a Whipple car, and it's a thread in this forum. Yes, I know how turbos work. I have a turbo vehicle sitting in my driveway. Tuned btw.

By the by, you said ANY BOOSTED 6gMustang...or at least that was what was being discussed. Now it has to be a specific WHIPPLE car.....

Moving those goalposts....But you're right. I am terrible at this. I am actually going to enjoy my slow, non-living @800 rwhp full-rip non-track timed car. It's a nice day. Or maybe I'll hop in the 68. Either way, you win, I lose. Enjoy.

I'm going to step out on a limb here and suggest that no matter how much empirical evidence you provide, no matter how many people show up with results, it won't matter.

@robvas , am I correct you will never believe anyone making over 800 on 93 octane? Please be honest so we can put this to bed.

This goes back to the beginning of the internet.

I did a dyno day in the late 90's and posted results up on the corral.net . I had back to back to back runs with only a cool down in between showing results on my SVT with airbox & filter mods.

I had ...30+ witnesses, many of whom were members, and backed up everything I said, yet no matter how many people called out the doubting Thomases, it would never be enough.

Nothing is going to satisfy them. I don't know the rationale why, or what motivates them to persistently deny it. In their mind - in @robvas mind, we're liars. You can't have a rational debate with someone who will not even concede that any evidence you put forth has any truth to it whatsoever.

 

[robvas]

Feel free to post Whipple cars making over 800 on straight 93 like I said.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, there's just a limit of what that engine can do on that octane. Like I said any tuner will tell you the same thing.

 

[LouG]

Thats nuts. At that price point you can get a new 911 GTS, or lighty used McLaren or Audi R8 V10.

Maybe, but I wouldn't touch a used performance car. Unless I knew the owner.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Maybe, but I wouldn't touch a used performance car. Unless I knew the owner.

Its all about documentation and inspections. There is a whole car culture that revolves around that stuff. The scrutiny is nuts.

 

[Ninjak]

Knowing the owner, or a crap ton of documentation, is the way to go. A buddy of mine just purchased a used performance vehicle with low miles (less than 1k) and a crap ton of documents about the vehicle, maintenance, and what aftermarket parts were used and who put them on.

At the price he purchased it, he came out way ahead.

 

[MAT1955]

Would I spend that much on that Mustang version? Maybe, maybe not - I might look at building a different combination BUT you can bet people buy these. The market (not our opinions) is always right. If it (or any product) sells then the manufacturer will keep offering them. Did I think I'd be paying 70 grand for a 2026 GT premium convertible when I was 25? I'd have thought you were crazy. Then again, these ARE crazy times. My neighbor just filled-up his go fast - 91 grade. $1,200.00 If he runs it at cruise - 50 mph (It'll do 80 on the gps) he will burn that off (easily) on a weekend. There is ALWAYS someone who will pay "the" price. 80% of Americans have no exposure to the stock market outside of their 401K - IF they have one. Make no mistake fellow forum members, those of us on this forum are in a very, very small club.

 

[LouG]

Its all about documentation and inspections. There is a whole car culture that revolves around that stuff. The scrutiny is nuts.

i just don't trust ours.

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