2024 mustang the problem with expectations

[Gogoggansgo]

I’ve been a forum guy for 20 years been on every major Mustang forum, Ducati “v4 owner here”, BMW ya name it because i enjoy learning and seeing what’s happening on the other side. I’ve seen a lot of post about the reception and sales of the 2024. I also work within the industry at the plant level, so I’ve personally invested in ford as a company “consultant”. I personally think the single biggest issue with the 2024s is the high price tag, it’s one of those situations where if the dark horse was 10k less MSRP i don’t think you’d see anywhere near the hate or crappy sales going on. And yes dark horse sales are NOT good my local dealer sold there’s under list “not much” just to move it. It was a loaded car but like WOW. What i find interesting is ford is going to very much act like it’s 2005 and we are all that’s left. Problem is the charger is going to have a turbo inline 6 which could potentially “all down to msrp
For dodge” really walk over the GT. This is a very very very weird time for the Mustang fans. Because while we can debate why the S650 is the best Mustang out of the gate. I think ford kinda missed the boat on what to focus on, i think pricing is the biggest issue by a mile. Also it had the 2015 s550 issue where the new car isn’t faster than the out going car, which resulted in the 2015s getting blasted off the bat bad. But once people threw mods at them it got real quiet. Unfortunately that isn’t the case with the 2024 and i could see the market crashing for them if we don’t get any sort of tuning. I don’t care if it’s a carb legal tune from FRPP or Whipple. They have to do something

Sponsored

 

[Zig]

Or if it came with simply 50 hp more? Interesting what a factory confirmed tune alone can do (simply look at dh and gt redline and hp/trq) just image when the adding begins.

 

[Crew4991]

Agreed. Part of the issue was that the direct American competitors (Challenger, Camaro) were being discontinued and we didn't know what would replace them/if they would come back.

Without that competition, Ford definitely saw the opportunity to make some money being the only payer in the field; then on top of that the dealers just made things even more expensive with markups.

 

[SSuperDave]

I'm surprised and disappointd at the lack of aftermarket stuff so far. I've got money to spend on cold air, better spoilers, tunes etc, but nothing out there.

 

[agreywolfe]

i dont think we can consider the S650 a failure just yet, its only in its first full year of sales (it wasnt available to mass market until august/September last year). we also need to look at global sales whenever it hits the European market. if we're going by US sales here then the Mustang has been a failure since 2006 when they sold 166K mustangs, not even the first full year of the S550 got near that (only 122k sold).

but looking at the numbers we have for 2023 theres a 2.2% increase in sales YoY. the S550 went on sale around September 2014 where they had a 7% increase in sales YoY. so the S550 did start off on a stronger foot than the S650.

so, are mustang sales down, yes, but theyve always been down, are mustangs expensive, yes. but looking at the FRED CPI for new cars with September 2014 as the index date which today means that middle of 34,985 from september 2014 multiplied by the CPI of 1.222 makes it 42,751.67. but lets knock that into a little more perspective here by taking out the DH and the 50th anniversary edition.

the middle for 2015 V6-GTPrem mustangs was: 32,800
thats CPI adjusted of: 40,081.6

the middle for non DH S650s is: 42,812.5

so really its not THAT much more than what you were paying in 2015, just looks like it because number scary and boss refuses to pay me more.

 

[SSuperDave]

I agree that the pricing is not that bad, especially on a base car. My base GT with auto trans and spare tire was $41,500 with D plan pricing. What I didn't like was packaging of options, which I know is the norm. I would have liked the 21 speaker stereo and colored calipers as a stand alone instead of being part of a more expensive package. I can add Katskin seat covers, and a woofer and better speakers to the existing car for far less than the package pricing, and will do so when I get a chance. I also got an axle back exhaust for a third of the active exhaust price. I'm nearing retirement and just could not afford the payment on a $62K Mustang.
If you are careful when ordering, the Mustang is and has always been, a better value per hp than the Camaro and Challenger.

 

[JediMindTrix]

It's an interesting blend of variables that created the S650- EV demand, no competitors in the segment, CAFE requirements. I still have the belief the S650 had a different design intent than what made it to the market especially after the latest report pushing out EV's and creating a more hybridized line up (including mustang). A hybrid V8 would likely close any power gap from dodge as mentioned by OP (if there is one but pricing will be a big indicator) and would bridge the gap in marketability offerings for a potential AWD and I would think this could introduce new customers.

Reported this morning:
With Today's News, A Ford Mustang Hybrid Seems Likely (fordauthority.com)

 

[John G]

I see where our local Ford Dealership is selling 2024 GT Premium Mustangs. They have had 5 on their lot since October or November of last year. Thus far they have sold 4. One was a Dark Horse that was sold within a matter of days. Then another GT Premium was sold before the end of the year. I purchased mine in February, and the last vehicle that they sold was a black convertible. So, all that is remaining is 1 more, which coincidentally is the first one that arrived on the lot.

Our local dealership is offering a discount which is an incentive to buy it now. which makes sense because here in South Dakota most of us have them in storage during the winter months.

I will agree, the prices are up there. But the 4 things that motivated me to buy a vehicle in February included the discounted price, 3,750.00 off the sticker price, the trade in allowance on my 2019 California Special GT Premium, the technology of the new 2024 model, and the overall body design.

One final factor was my age. Do I wait another year and buy a used one then, or buy it now and enjoy it for all of this year?

I think if we really want one, we will come up with a way to make it happen.

 

[Upacurb]

i dont think we can consider the S650 a failure just yet, its only in its first full year of sales (it wasnt available to mass market until august/September last year). we also need to look at global sales whenever it hits the European market. if we're going by US sales here then the Mustang has been a failure since 2006 when they sold 166K mustangs, not even the first full year of the S550 got near that (only 122k sold).

but looking at the numbers we have for 2023 theres a 2.2% increase in sales YoY. the S550 went on sale around September 2014 where they had a 7% increase in sales YoY. so the S550 did start off on a stronger foot than the S650.

so, are mustang sales down, yes, but theyve always been down, are mustangs expensive, yes. but looking at the FRED CPI for new cars with September 2014 as the index date which today means that middle of 34,985 from september 2014 multiplied by the CPI of 1.222 makes it 42,751.67. but lets knock that into a little more perspective here by taking out the DH and the 50th anniversary edition.

the middle for 2015 V6-GTPrem mustangs was: 32,800
thats CPI adjusted of: 40,081.6

the middle for non DH S650s is: 42,812.5

so really its not THAT much more than what you were paying in 2015, just looks like it because number scary and boss refuses to pay me more.

First quarter sales were down -6.8% compared to last year....not a massive downward spike
But the dealers around here have TONS of them on the lots so its not a supply issue....

I wouldnt call the S650 a failure as its not like sales are off 50% - but I dont think there is the sales spike they were expecting

I think it might have been over-hyped and they set expectations too high before the release - then when people realized its more of an evolution of the S550 then an all new revolutionary car with massive gains in acceleration and handling .... I think there was a let down....and thats where the perception comes from

I also think the controversial screens didnt help it ..... (not saying they are bad- just saying there are a lot of Mustang owners I know that are keeping their S550 as their perception is the S550 interior is more unique - wrong or right- dont kill the messenger here lol)

Yes everything got more expensive- and even if salary goes up- its still hard to mentally get past paying considerably more for something then 3-4 years ago .....

 

[9secondko]

It’s not that having expectations is the problem.

There is a difference between having reasonable and unreasonable expectations.

but more was expected of the ‘24 plus generation due to numerous reasons:

1) we were constantly told to expect a brand new, Mustang-specific platform. We didn’t even make that up. Ford publicly put that out there. Then we were told “hey guys! The s650 is ‘ALL NEW!’ Yay!” Big fat LIE.

what did we get? The same 20 year old, tired platform as the 1960’s-alike models from 2005, with the duct-tape from the s550 gen and then some bubble gum for this gen. The result is S197++

To say We were let down is an understatement.

Then there was the power upgrades. No real increase from the Bullitt/mach 1 figures. If we wanted 500 hp, we had to pay big money for the dark horse. But that big money doesn’t even buy what less money used to buy when s550 launched with a 526 hp option.

then there is performance. The same s197 numbers from 2012. No meaningful increase in 12 years! Seriously? A 2016 Camaro is keeping up with or beating a dark horse? It’s frigging embarassing. I’m supposed to pay how much for that load of egg on my face?

and then there is the styling. Looks like the old gen but with a cheaper looking grille. We were told to expect all-new. What did we get? More lies.

so is it wrong to expect a new platform with new styling and performance worthy of an American performance icon all the way in 2024?

let’s get with it people. It’s time Ford pushed the Mustang hard. Made it worthy of its heritage, and hit the gas. This freak show has been dragging on for too long.

So yes, many of us are disappointed. Not just with the price, but with the car itself. Because there isn’t my much to be excited about, having to justify its existence left and right. “Oh, but we’re just lucky it’s around, or “ I know it’s not very fast, but Ford is saving money,” “I know it’s old but Ford is saving money again.” FINE. I’m saving money too by not buying the dangthing.

I have to wait forever and pay over 100k for a Gtd/gt500/etc. just to get a 2024+ Mustang that beats a 2016 Camaro? If a crashed GM could figure out how to get much from a cheap car, Ford can too. They need to want to. Hopefully people being tired of their crap and showing disinterest in the same-ol ‘ but with higher prices isn’t cutting it anymore.

Ford has set expectations. Then they blew it. And this has been going on for too long. They’ve banked on nostalgia. On love for the nameplate. On enthusiasm for Mustang. But now we are past the due date. We actually want a return on the heart and money investment. We want a new car that looks great and performs like a monster in this era.

how the heck is that all of a sudden too much to ask? Mustang has done that in the past. So has Camaro. It’s not impossible. It just takes drive. And that is sorely lacking at the moment.

we are Mustang fans. We want it not only to win at the dealership sales office, we want it to win on the street, at the strip, at the track, in the fearful nightmares of its competitors and the hearts of its fans.

so far, the new gen isn’t doing ANY of that.

it’s not time to lower reasonable expectations. It’s time for Ford to meet them.

 

[Karguy]

I see the problem with lack of excitement/enthusiasm for the "new" Mustang that it is nothing more than the almost 10 year old Mustang...I was excited about a new Mustang especially since Camaro,Challenger,Corvette (lack of manual) gone ! Only competition bein BMW M2/3/4 but really not if you need V8 sound...So Ford went cheap , renemed the Mach 1 Darkhorse and raised the prices even more while quality seems still not good looking at paint and panel gaps and electronic glitches...Touchscreens are cheaper to manufacture especially when you leave knobs and bottons off.The chassis is still not the greatest ,the car too heavy , gearing tall and the Coyote and almost 15 year old motor...Lots of money has been wasted on EVs only 10% of new car buyers want and the new/old Mustang shows it...unfortunately ! Still better though than no Camaro , auto only Corvette or 2025 Charger with no V8 rumble !

 

[Karguy]

It’s not that having expectations is the problem.

There is a difference between having reasonable and unreasonable expectations.

but more was expected of the ‘24 plus generation due to numerous reasons:

1) we were constantly told to expect a brand new, Mustang-specific platform. We didn’t even make that up. Ford publicly put that out there. Then we were told “hey guys! The s650 is ‘ALL NEW!’ Yay!” Big fat LIE.

what did we get? The same 20 year old, tired platform as the 1960’s-alike models from 2005, with the duct-tape from the s550 gen and then some bubble gum for this gen. The result is S197++

To say We were let down is an understatement.

Then there was the power upgrades. No real increase from the Bullitt/mach 1 figures. If we wanted 500 hp, we had to pay big money for the dark horse. But that big money doesn’t even buy what less money used to buy when s550 launched with a 526 hp option.

then there is performance. The same s197 numbers from 2012. No meaningful increase in 12 years! Seriously? A 2016 Camaro is keeping up with or beating a dark horse? It’s frigging embarassing. I’m supposed to pay how much for that load of egg on my face?

and then there is the styling. Looks like the old gen but with a cheaper looking grille. We were told to expect all-new. What did we get? More lies.

so is it wrong to expect a new platform with new styling and performance worthy of an American performance icon all the way in 2024?

let’s get with it people. It’s time Ford pushed the Mustang hard. Made it worthy of its heritage, and hit the gas. This freak show has been dragging on for too long.

So yes, many of us are disappointed. Not just with the price, but with the car itself. Because there isn’t my much to be excited about, having to justify its existence left and right. “Oh, but we’re just lucky it’s around, or “ I know it’s not very fast, but Ford is saving money,” “I know it’s old but Ford is saving money again.” FINE. I’m saving money too by not buying the dangthing.

I have to wait forever and pay over 100k for a Gtd/gt500/etc. just to get a 2024+ Mustang that beats a 2016 Camaro? If a crashed GM could figure out how to get much from a cheap car, Ford can too. They need to want to. Hopefully people being tired of their crap and showing disinterest in the same-ol ‘ but with higher prices isn’t cutting it anymore.

Ford has set expectations. Then they blew it. And this has been going on for too long. They’ve banked on nostalgia. On love for the nameplate. On enthusiasm for Mustang. But now we are past the due date. We actually want a return on the heart and money investment. We want a new car that looks great and performs like a monster in this era.

how the heck is that all of a sudden too much to ask? Mustang has done that in the past. So has Camaro. It’s not impossible. It just takes drive. And that is sorely lacking at the moment.

we are Mustang fans. We want it not only to win at the dealership sales office, we want it to win on the street, at the strip, at the track, in the fearful nightmares of its competitors and the hearts of its fans.

so far, the new gen isn’t doing ANY of that.

it’s not time to lower reasonable expectations. It’s time for Ford to meet them.

You nailed it brother...100% !
FORD should come up with a 100% new car and make a 4 door variant of it and even AWD to get more snow belt , law enforcement and Charger 4 door family car sales...As Also give the Coyote much needed low to mid range Torque without having to put a supercharger on it which means 8 mpg if you actually use it...If thats the case use at least turbos which a harder to do but only drain gas if you use the power...Instead they wasted billions on Mach-E and F150 Lightning nobody wants or can afford but at least Uncle Joe was happy being able to power up his house in case the electricity is down...LOL

 

[GripTime]

Good conversation. My take is more about the total landscape for an automaker. The EV environment is not stable. You have unpredictable government standards that can change from administration to administration. You have unpredictable EV demand from consumers complicated with needed infrastructure for charging. Large corporate forecasts are typically 5 to 10 years ahead.

This may be the reason Ford only disrupted one thing with the S650, the screens. Now they can see how they are received. I will admit, I am not a good candidate to judge the screens because it's not a DD for me. When I do weekend and track drives it is a neat toy. Day to day I have no idea how I would feel. Anyway, they only disrupted the screens and now they wait and get more forecasts for government standards and EV demand while they plot their next move. Invest in ICE, Hybrid, or EV. In conclusion, now might not be the best time to be totally disruptive. The have already done the Mach E and F150 Lightning. So maybe so far so good. Is it giving us the new GT350, not yet.

Lastly, and I can't say this enough, you can't just keep winning Superbowls. The S550 is SOLID. I loved the performance of the S550 I just didn't like the package enough to buy.

 

[GripTime]

I see the problem with lack of excitement/enthusiasm for the "new" Mustang that it is nothing more than the almost 10 year old Mustang...I was excited about a new Mustang especially since Camaro,Challenger,Corvette (lack of manual) gone ! Only competition bein BMW M2/3/4 but really not if you need V8 sound...So Ford went cheap , renemed the Mach 1 Darkhorse and raised the prices even more while quality seems still not good looking at paint and panel gaps and electronic glitches...Touchscreens are cheaper to manufacture especially when you leave knobs and bottons off.The chassis is still not the greatest ,the car too heavy , gearing tall and the Coyote and almost 15 year old motor...Lots of money has been wasted on EVs only 10% of new car buyers want and the new/old Mustang shows it...unfortunately ! Still better though than no Camaro , auto only Corvette or 2025 Charger with no V8 rumble !

There is a flip side to what you are saying. You can arguably say Ford was able to do a facelift and screens and still keep selling cars at a moderate level. That would speak to the strength of the S550. It's all about perspective and you must remember, not all people who buy Mustangs are enthusiasts. Some people just want a sport cars. I have a couple of guys at my gym, one has a Supra, one as a GT350 and both appear that they have never been washed. I am not hating on them, but some people just drive cars.

 

[Karguy]

And if they cant/wont spend money on a all new V8 platform PLEASE dont call the gen 7 a all new generation because it is insulting because it makes you stupid and its insulting to the prospective customers...What you should do is increase the bore of the Coyote which would mean a new block and get the front right.I mean make it lower and get rid of the kink up front having super high fenders that are way too tall over the front wheel arches and then come down on the last 10 inches where also the hood makes this weird Kink...Front and lights could be much better too comparing how the Broncos looks because that is all I like about it was inspired by the originals...Anyways off my soap box...LOL And a new GT500 with 800 plus hp for $150K which is a bargain looking at the $300K GTD (sarcasm) that gets 8mpg ,will be auto only and can only put 550 hp down because it lacks AWD nobody is getting exited about either except for a few bored collector$$$....Its time to get real and show GM what a pile of crap the Camaro really was...And that from a guy who had 4 Camaros and snap oversteer Z06 Vettes...LOL

Sponsored