2024 (ish) Challenger reveal during Dodge Speed Week?

[lcbrownz]

Dodge shouldn't dirty the Challenger (or Charger) names by putting hybrid or electric drivetrains in them. I'm not a big Dodge person, but I like what they've done in the last 10 years or so.

It's really a sad day when great cars are turned into appliances.

Dodge shouldn't dirty the Challenger (or Charger) names by putting hybrid or electric drivetrains in them. I'm not a big Dodge person, but I like what they've done in the last 10 years or so.

It's really a sad day when great cars are turned into appliances.

Given time, cars will no longer be driven by human drivers but riden in like in taxis.

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[Hack]

Given time, cars will no longer be driven by human drivers but riden in like in taxis.

I will be fine with someday buying an appliance to get me to and from work. If I were marketing that type of vehicle, I wouldn't put a name on it. Just a model number. And any styling efforts would be minimal. Just make the thing work at the lowest possible price point. Like a refrigerator.

But hopefully there will never be a law making it illegal to drive your own car. Frankly I think the computing both on the hardware and software side is quite challenging and may be slow to arrive. Any company putting out cars that drive themselves might even have to bribe their way past liability suits or those cars would end up very limited in what areas and speeds they can travel. It would be interesting driving on roads where you can recognize which cars are driven by computers and you know exactly what programmed behavior those cars will do when you put on a lane change blinker or step on the brakes in front of them. It might even be fun for those of us not in the computer driven vehicles.

Anyway, I'm hoping that this won't be an issue for me as I may be retired before any of this happens.

 

[lcbrownz]

I will be fine with someday buying an appliance to get me to and from work. If I were marketing that type of vehicle, I wouldn't put a name on it. Just a model number. And any styling efforts would be minimal. Just make the thing work at the lowest possible price point. Like a refrigerator.

But hopefully there will never be a law making it illegal to drive your own car. Frankly I think the computing both on the hardware and software side is quite challenging and may be slow to arrive. Any company putting out cars that drive themselves might even have to bribe their way past liability suits or those cars would end up very limited in what areas and speeds they can travel. It would be interesting driving on roads where you can recognize which cars are driven by computers and you know exactly what programmed behavior those cars will do when you put on a lane change blinker or step on the brakes in front of them. It might even be fun for those of us not in the computer driven vehicles.

Anyway, I'm hoping that this won't be an issue for me as I may be retired before any of this happens.

That's what the general public said about horses and buggies during the turn of the 20th century.

 

[Hack]

That's what the general public said about horses and buggies during the turn of the 20th century.

I doubt that is true. Most probably wanted something better and cheaper than a horse. You may have never had to deal with horses. I can assure you it's not a lot of fun to feed them and clean up after them. And they can't travel very far or very fast. It takes too long to "refuel". Definitely if you live in an apartment with no garage you couldn't own a horse. Even cars from the turn of the century were a lot better than horses.

I would love to have something better/cheaper than my current cars. More performance, cheaper to maintain, longer lasting, quick to refuel, fun to drive.

Electric cars just aren't better right now, so I don't want one.

I get that you are trying to paint me as anti-technology. I'm not. I just want something better and I'm not interested in something that isn't as good as what I have now.

 

[lcbrownz]

I doubt that is true. Most probably wanted something better and cheaper than a horse. You may have never had to deal with horses. I can assure you it's not a lot of fun to feed them and clean up after them. And they can't travel very far or very fast. It takes too long to "refuel". Definitely if you live in an apartment with no garage you couldn't own a horse. Even cars from the turn of the century were a lot better than horses.

I would love to have something better/cheaper than my current cars. More performance, cheaper to maintain, longer lasting, quick to refuel, fun to drive.

Electric cars just aren't better right now, so I don't want one.

I get that you are trying to paint me as anti-technology. I'm not. I just want something better and I'm not interested in something that isn't as good as what I have now.

 

[lcbrownz]

During the turn of the 20th century, there were more horses on the road than cars. Until Henry Ford came out with the Model T, only the wealthy could afford a automobile.

 

[Mspider]

obviously everyone knows electric cars can produce crazy performance numbers. And numbers are awesome for marketing and creating hype.

My biggest fear with everything going electric is lack of diversity with "motor" configuration.

I love how each car manufacturer offers something different than each other. Different transmission, turbos, superchargers, engine size, cylinder count, some low revving, some high revving, manual transmission, double clutch auto, single clutch auto etc.. Electric motor naturally only makes one sound, have similar powerband, and don`t need transmissions. Its like the art of making something unique for the customers will be gone. Half of the fun of owning a Lamborghini is that your engine makes a sound that cheaper cars cannot produce. In a world where all the car manufacturers are making electric performance cars, they will all be fast. Just comes down to which brand, visual design, or which car can hit 0-60 .1 second faster.

Hopefully I am wrong and some manufacturers can produce a unique and engaging experience with electric car that is more than just a fast 0-60 time.

I am going to be disappointed when Dodge equips there electric muscle car with exterior speakers.

 

[Chomperr]

Honestly, I don't know if an EV would be right for me or not. First off, it would depend on the range. anything less than 350 miles won't work for me if I want to use it on my road trips (90 percent of my vacations are road trips). 500 miles would be a heck of a lot better.

Next, it has to look good. Current Challenger/Charger looks are pretty good for a Dodge. While I prefer some of the Ford looks, Dodge isn't always horrible. That said, their interior isn't up to the same quality as the Mustang 6g has been, even though I like the layout better. (I loved the old 89-97 Thunderbird cockpit style layout)

Finally, it has to perform well. I don't need 2s 6-60 times, but mid 4s or 5s would be really really nice. anything 7 or over would not make the cut. Handling also needs to be there. This is maybe where the new platform will come in, but batteries are HEAVY. while it will have a low CoG, it's still going to take some serious rubber to move this beast around a corner.

Lots to look forward to in the next few months.

Honestly, I’d have been much more intrigued with the Charger if the interior didn’t remind me of my dad’s Dodge Stratus company fleet vehicle from the early 2000’s. If I needed a 4 door family hauler. I think the current model looks great.

Its also insane to me that anyone would buy the 5.7L RT when you can get almost another 100hp in a base 5.0 for the same price or cheaper. Again unless you need the 4 doors. You’re better off buying the AWD V6 instead of the half assed version of the V8.

 

[Hack]

Yes the 5.7 is pretty bad for a relatively big V8.

During the turn of the 20th century, there were more horses on the road than cars. Until Henry Ford came out with the Model T, only the wealthy could afford a automobile.

Yes, and when cars became affordable, people decided they were better than horses and bought cars. I agree before cars became affordable horses had a better value proposition. Just like right now I think ICE vehicles have a much better value proposition than EVs.

If I could buy a decent current model EV for about $10K I would be interested. I wouldn't worry about the problems like short battery life, long recharge times, overwhelming the electric grid, unproven technology, having to hire a pro to rewire part of my house, etc. But right now EVs cost more than similar ICE cars, plus they have the disadvantages. Not worth it.

With what EVs currently cost, they probably have to improve 2x or 3x before I'm a buyer.

 

[lcbrownz]

Yes the 5.7 is pretty bad for a relatively big V8.



Yes, and when cars became affordable, people decided they were better than horses and bought cars. I agree before cars became affordable horses had a better value proposition. Just like right now I think ICE vehicles have a much better value proposition than EVs.

If I could buy a decent current model EV for about $10K I would be interested. I wouldn't worry about the problems like short battery life, long recharge times, overwhelming the electric grid, unproven technology, having to hire a pro to rewire part of my house, etc. But right now EVs cost more than similar ICE cars, plus they have the disadvantages. Not worth it.

With what EVs currently cost, they probably have to improve 2x or 3x before I'm a buyer.

Especially when car manufacturers are now developing straight 6 engines to replace V8s with the same HP.

 

[Ace]

https://www.challenger4g.com/forum/...nger-will-be-electric-only.10838/#post-156832

As it is noted here MT is sticking to their story even after Dodge's statement. Their reasoning is believable IMO, but we shall see.

If it does get replaced by an inline 6 it is just one step closer before it goes full EV. Pure stop gap.

If the next challenger is BEV, there is absolutely not way to put an ICE on that platform. It doesn't work that way, the weigth distribution and underbody space for batteries are completely unique for BEVs. ICEs in comparison require more space for center tunnel and have to balance out a heavy frontengine. You just can't put an ICE into a BEV. Even if Stellantis is trying to do a platform that supports ICEs and BEVs, it doesn't really make sense and could end in a "worst of both worlds". Just look at Ford or Chevy. Mustang7 won't be a BEV, C8 Corvette will never become a BEV. But there will be standalone BEVs models that share the name and idea.

Motortrend stated the next Challenger/Charger still keeps the HEMI, Dodge denies that and now that try to retroactively change their statement to "yeah but maybe we meant an I6 is coming".

Also their whole market strategy for their eMuscle Car is "Performance made us do it". If they are selling ICEs on their car at the same time, they would ruin their only selling point for the EV model.

It will be really interesting to see their eMuscle against Mustang7. I can totally see people going for the Mustang for one last cars with an V8 engine. At the same time if Dodge can nail their car we could really see how many muscle car fans are going to buy an EV.

 

[Stonehauler]

I would not get the R/T, I would get the Scat Pack as a minimum if I were buying a Dodge today.

As for Challenger vs Charger...I know I don't fit in the back of the Charger, but I do in the Challenger (I hit my head on the rear window in the Charger). That said, I can count the times I have been in the back of my current 10 year old car on one hand with fingers left over. Those times it was to comfort an injured/sick pet while my wife drove us to the vet. Having those extra doors is nice when you are trying to place an 80 lb dog in the back seat of the car.

 

[shogun32]

At the same time if Dodge can nail their car we could really see how many muscle car fans are going to buy an EV

~15% if that. That's my guess.

And then Dodge will scramble like mad to bring back the current gen car, with perhaps limited drivetrain options (just the V6/I6 and 6.4L Hemi, A8, no 6MT) to fill in the calamitous drop-off in units sold. Subaru might be happy with 3-5000 units/yr but Dodge needs 10x that.

Does Dodge have a new/revised ICE sedan platform ready to go to manufacturing?

I'm betting Stelantis is going to be the first business canary to take a heavyweight punch to the face in the stupidity of and betting on chasing the (politically-motivated no less) BEV fad. Ditto VW is going to be massively disappointed in the numbers of i4 and kin it sells.

Just watch F150 Lightning and Mach-E sales numbers CRATER in the developing economic outlook.

 

[Stonehauler]

Stelantis has to start making the move to electric. Typically, cars run on a 6-12 year platform cycle.
By 2035, all new vehicles in their home market (Europe), need to be EV (maybe not BEV, but EV). Some states are actually more stringent (Washington is 2030 for instance)

So yes, technically, they can probably go with a short program non-EV vehicle and hope to get 10 years out of it, but this is just going to be the first of many vehicles that will be using that the small, medium, and large platforms. They need to start somewhere and they probably think that they can best do it here.

You might ask why.
The answer to that is...it's the large vehicle platform. Right now, batteries are big and heavy. To get any kind of range out of them, they need to be using a lot of them. The only vehicles that can accomplish that and still get a good range out of them and still not completely go out of the price range are larger cars and truck platforms. Those are also the biggest users of dead dinos as well. So they take their biggest least efficient vehicles and move them to a more efficient (on paper) platform. Once newer battery techs are online (and there is a lot of work going on in that area) that can reduce the cost per unit, increase the energy that can be stored per kg of batter, or both, then they can use that tech to roll out their smaller cars.

 

[shogun32]

200 miles of range or 300, hell even 400 I don't see it moving the needle. The cost is preposterous and the benefits essentially nil, but the annoyances/inconveniences are legion.

That won't fly with buyers in USA even if 90% of Chargers never leave the immediate metro area.

The EU market is dramatically different from USA though. So they might have success with an EV/BEV Charger with only 250 mile of range. I mean, if you're in europe, where are you going to go? And politically they have no problem at all forcing EV down everybody's throats and taxing them (for their own good) to establish charging infrastructure. Try that here and it's political suicide if not meriting a noose or bullet.

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