New Whipple now needs stickier tires for the street. Any suggestions?

[MAT1955]

@MustangMitch69 ....EXACTLY. My grandfather had a big equipment company with about 20 technicians. In their spare time they would build custom auto and maruine engines for friends and family. They had shop CNCs, deckers, lathes, mills, presses, dynos you name it. Word spread and people asked for them to do builds. Grandfather seeing an opportunity, split-off a section of his company for custom builds. Guys would come in and want the "top end" of their engines built-up. I remember hearing my Grandfather or a tech say "NOPE" how much money do you have - we will build the engine and any related components evenly so you don't blow-up our work. I know Mustang (and other custom work like on WRXs) is done by a super cpmpany in Boynton Beach that will have your mustang engine built-up to 2000HP BUT will also have your transmission built-up too AND auxillary cooling etc. installed - I think they call it the Mac Daddy 1500. I believe it is a highly specialized 10R80. I believe the shop is called RSA (Race Solutions America) and at one point had the fastest Mustang in the USA. There should be some youtube videos on them. There was one a few years back entitled 2000HP Mustang slays Lambos.

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[Sofa King]

You're spot on about rotating mass in a vacuum, but for a Whipple build, the priority shifts entirely to traction. An 8.5" wheel maxes out around a 255mm tire, which just can't put down 800hp,.you'd be spinning through 3rd gear.

Regarding fitment, I could be wrong, but I think 20s actually offer better clearance for the Brembos than 19s. Also, the 35/30 aspect ratios are calculated to match the OEM total diameter. Since the overall height stays the same as stock, your car’s angle and rake won't change, even with Steeda springs.

Yes 20's give more clearance for the brembos. though the rake could change with 275/35-20 in front and 305/30-20 in rear as the rear are smaller at 27.2" vs 27.6" in front. I had 305/30-20 in the rear with 265/35-20 in front (27.3"), so only .1" smaller in the rear, but didn't like them as it seemed to need a taller tire in the rear (much like the GT PP), and the tire sidewall profiles didn't match. I ended up with a 295/35 (28.1"), so the rake was about the same as GT PP at .8" larger in the rear (.7" on PP).

 

[Paul's stable]

Putting 800+ horsepower through a 255mm contact patch is essentially like trying to run a marathon in dress shoes.

A 255mm tire on an 8.5-inch wheel will likely struggle to find traction, even with a premium compound. Most supercharged builds move to at least a 10-inch or 11-inch rear wheel to fit a 305mm tire, otherwise you might find yourself spinning the tires through the first three gears, which takes away from all that new power.

Not speaking from experience, but I've done a ton of research on this because I plan on eventually whippling mine, but first getting better half shafts and new wheels and tires to be able to properly put down the power.

A supercharged car that can't put down the power and just spins its wheels is basically a Hellcat.

So my plan is to get 20x9.5's for the front and 20x11's for the back, and then 275/35R20 tires for the front and 305/30R20 tires for the back.

Technically, a 305/35R19 can fit on a 19x10.5 wheel, but for a high-horsepower build, you want the tire carcass to be as stable as possible. On a 10.5" wheel, you lose some of that lateral stability, which can make the rear end feel "squishy" or "sway-ish" when you're rowing through gears at full boost.

A 305 tire on a 10.5" wheel doesn't actually give you much more usable "contact patch" than a high-quality 295 tire would on that same wheel. To truly take advantage of a 305 or 315 width for a 800+ hp car, an 11-inch wide wheel is the industry standard for a reason. It allows the tread to sit perfectly flat across the pavement.

For make an model of tire, it's all about tradeoffs. For a pure drag car, Micky Thompson drag radials are probably ideal, but your car will slide all over the place turning or in the rain. A step away from that would be something like Nitto G2 on the front and R2 in the rear, which can handle daily driving and will hook your whipple much better than most standard street tires.

Then a step further from that (what I'll most likely be getting) would be something like the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, a best-in-class street tire that has better dry launch grip than Continentals but won't hydroplane the rear in the rain (unlike the others), and will have sharp & precise cornering (also unlike the others).

I have run Pilot sport 4s but for traction for my Whipple I run Mickey Thompson P325/30R19 but only an idiot would drive in the rain on these tires. That's why it sit's in it's heated garage when it's not sunny.

 

[robvas]

Buy six wheels...then you can swap rears whenever you want

put drag radials on one pair of rear wheels, and a "good" tire for the rest of the time.

 

[5LTR550]

Mickeythompson et street ss if you have the flexibility to put a sticky tire.i have other cars so i can run an et street or stickier on the stang 24/7. Ive run the et street ss the toyo r888 and the 555rii and the mickey has always been my favorite of the 3.
if you cant go drag radial ps4 or firestone firehawk indy 500.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

MMR Head Cooling Mod to specifically prevent the #8 cylinder from detonating due to a localized hot spot.

Is this a thing on a Gen 4 Coyote? I ask because this is the first I have heard of this as a concern or of the fix.

 

[MustangMitch69]

Is this a thing on a Gen 4 Coyote? I ask because this is the first I have heard of this as a concern or of the fix.

Anyone can correct me if im wrong but my understanding is that while the Gen 4 got dual throttle bodies and internal strengthening, the coolant flow path through the heads remains largely the same as the Gen 1-3.

The coolant enters the front of the block and heads, but it has no "exit" at the very back of the passenger-side head (where Cylinder #8 is located), which creates a pocket of stagnant, hotter coolant at that rear cylinder.

Under the massive heat of a Whipple Stage 1, that localized "hot spot" can lead to pre-ignition (knock) in just that one cylinder, even if the rest of the engine looks fine on the gauge.

Most owners who stay NA will never need this mod because the stock cooling system can keep up with 480 HP. It's primarily a forced induction insurance policy.

 

[robvas]

Is this a thing on a Gen 4 Coyote? I ask because this is the first I have heard of this as a concern or of the fix.

It's been a snake oil mod since the 4.6 days

 

[Junkyard Dog]

It's been a snake oil mod since the 4.6 days

robvas,

Very informative video, and not just for the reason you posted. I have a much better understanding of the Coyote cooling system now. Thanks.

 

[MustangMitch69]

It's been a snake oil mod since the 4.6 days

People call oil pump gears snake oil too, and that's fine. If you don't want it, just don't buy it. I know people who don't think home insurance is worth it either.

It's just my opinion that if you have the engine apart anyway it's a cheap and easy to install mod while you're already in there doing everything else.

It may or may not actually help burp air pockets that can get trapped in the very back of the heads during a coolant fill, which would otherwise cause a localized hot spot.

And in extreme forced-induction scenarios, any small reduction in pressure or temperature differential between the heads is seen as a safety margin, even if the "mechanical gain" is mathematically small.

For a stage 1 whipple daily driver, definitely optional, not necessary.

 

[robvas]

Testing data

https://trackmustangsonline.com/thr...g-snake-oil-first-data-may-indicate-so.21353/

Also there are the people that say the cooling passages are enlarged in the gen3/4 blocks eliminating the need for anything like this

 

[MustangMitch69]

Testing data

https://trackmustangsonline.com/thr...g-snake-oil-first-data-may-indicate-so.21353/

Also there are the people that say the cooling passages are enlarged in the gen3/4 blocks eliminating the need for anything like this

Interesting, thanks for sharing this! As an engineer, I can't refute an A/B test with sensors.

The standard MMR crossover kit might truly be more of an "air-bleed" tool rather than a thermal management tool. The TMO data reinforces that the best way to keep the heads cool is to keep the entire system's temperature lower, and spending the money saved on the MMR kit to upgrade the Whipple heat exchanger or intercooler pump will yield a much higher return in safety.

 

[B229218]

Going with Nitto nt05. Only soft tire I could find in 255/40/19 for 8.5 inch rim.
Just to make it a little safer on the street. I can afford bigger where wheels and axles.

 

[B229218]

Not any sticky tires really in that size, you could go R888R from Toyo, they’ll help but not as good as a true drag radial compound

I have nitto 555R2 on my stock 19x8.5s but I’m looking to go an inch wider, but I did run them all last year
275/40/19, they hold really well, but it still gets sideways 70-80 up. I’m on 3.5 pulley/E30 though so mid 800s

Did u run 275 on 8.5 rim?
I am going to try Nitto nt 05
Softest tire I could find in the size for the rim just so I can afford axles and bigger wheels assembly.

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