Edmund's Supercharged Dark Horse 'broke'

[Q6543]

This is why I pound the table about off road headers.
I know it’s a hassle and smell, but E30 kills the smell.
And I’d say off road headers are a must over OPG’s 100 times out of 100.

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[robvas]

This is why I pound the table about off road headers.
I know it’s a hassle and smell, but E30 kills the smell.
And I’d say off road headers are a must over OPG’s 100 times out of 100.

People say this but my car doesn't smell any different on e30

 

[smurfslayer]

This is why I pound the table about off road headers.
I know it’s a hassle and smell, but E30 kills the smell.
And I’d say off road headers are a must over OPG’s 100 times out of 100.

I just had blower and headers done, I went with the s/w catted headers, but after multiple rounds discussion with the shop owner, he all but insisted we remove the cats. He said even the high flow cats were going to get killed, so this and having already read some of the melted cat stories on here - I can learn. it may take a while, but I can do it.

ETA: the stainless works catted headers can have a pipe installed in place of the cats, and they're relatively easy to swap in and out.

 

[Q6543]

That’s a good shop, some of the aftermarket cat constructions seem to be even weaker than OEM.

It’s nothing to play around with when you’re talking 12:1 compression and another 12-15+ psi.

 

[Trueblue3605]

Right, I'm just saying they're wrong. They don't know dick about these cars.

But I get it, these guys are automotive journalists, not basement-dwelling internet exports.

Basically what you can pull from this information is:

"Is the Whipple kit for the Mustang reliable?"

Maybe. Don't be surprised if you have issues if you beat on it.

"Can you take your Whipple Mustang on the race track?"

Probably not.

"How is the warranty on the Whipple kit?"

So-so. Is 3 months to replace the factory cats acceptable to you?

Aren't they just relaying what the dealership told them? The idea that an automotive journalist would know nothing about cars seems really bizarre? If they are wrong about the diagnosis isn't that the fault of the Ford service folks? Obviously the turn around time is not just to install cats but to properly diagnose this issue before repairs are made?

 

[LouG]

Aren't they just relaying what the dealership told them? The idea that an automotive journalist would know nothing about cars seems really bizarre?

It never used to be the case, but anyone with a Youtube account is an expert now.
Journalists are just as bad. Great entertainment for people who know.
One example. The guy in "Normal guy, Supercar" changed leaking wheel bearing seals on his trailer. Didn't clean out the leaked grease. It was all over the brake shoes, everything.
Threw it all together
Job Done!

 

[robvas]

Aren't they just relaying what the dealership told them?

Yes.

But what I'm saying they're wrong about is "all the numbers we gathered with this car are invalid". I think the car was running just fine before the track visit.

The idea that an automotive journalist would know nothing about cars seems really bizarre?

They know plenty about cars. But mechanical issues, troubleshooting, much less aftermarket supercharged Mustangs? No.

Obviously the turn around time is not just to install cats but to properly diagnose this issue before repairs are made?

3 months is still nuts. But of course Ford is short on techs, parts are always out of stock, etc

 

[Neggytive]

JFC the Mode 6 data for cylinder contribution would have shown the misfire count long before the CEL came on

If it was just some Joe Schmoe's car Fort Performance/Ford Racing would have told them to pound sand


I thought the limits on Ford Performance's warranty had some piss poor low dollar amount for max payout. I think 6 grand was way over that figure.

There is no guarantee that rods were not bent, bearings beat or other issues

 

[robvas]

I thought the limits on Ford Performance's warranty had some piss poor low dollar amount for max payout. I think 6 grand was way over that figure.

Depends on what breaks. This is from the previous model.

 

[Zig]

JFC the Mode 6 data for cylinder contribution would have shown the misfire count long before the CEL came on

Would a pre/post data scan potentially be helpful when doing test / evaluation sessions?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

$5000-$6000 to replace spark plugs, o2 sensor, and catalytic converters? Really?

 

[Zig]

$5000-$6000 to replace spark plugs, o2 sensor, and catalytic converters? Really?

Probably includes wash and wax as well.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

It was a cool, 60 degree day, too.

However, data pulled from the car began to paint a picture. The engine's coolant temperature reached 240 degrees Fahrenheit at some point while the car was traveling 80 mph, indicating it had started to overheat. At this point, the dealer's theory was that the car had been "pushed too hard." Seriously?

Does the car record data about coolant temperature? Is there even a coolant temperature sensor?

 

[Neggytive]

Would a pre/post data scan potentially be helpful when doing test / evaluation sessions?

Pre and post scans will only show you what is already flagged by the computer and tossing a code, It is used now in the collision industry to make sure all codes are addressed that were in the car when it came in, and that when it leaves the codes have been fixed AND you did not add any in the repair process.


Here is an example of Mode 6 data vs a scan looking for codes.

My 07 GT had a stumble on acceleration, that flat spot type of stumble we used to feel when accelerator pumps needed replacing in carbs.

No CEL was lit

So I went into mode 6, cylinder contribution and looked at the data and out of the 8 holes there was one that was showing misfires, but not enough to set off the CEL, and another one that had a few more counts than the rest.

The easiest thing to do was to put 2 plugs in it, although some people might have moved coils from cylinder to cylinder, and the tube that runs from the coil pack to the plug itself moved. The reason I went that direction was when I pulled the 2 plugs, that only had 10K miles on them but were 12 years old, I could see the slightest crack in the porcelain on the 2 plugs, so the electricity was leaking out from the plug center and seeking a ground at the hex on the plug.

There are other things you look for such as long and short term fuel trim numbers, both should be in the plus or minus 5% range or less, nothing is exact so the engine is always adding or taking away fuel depending on a bunch of things, but generally it is under 5%, if it is more you have a problem.

You could have unmetered fuel getting in somehow. Some cars have fuel lines and injectors under the intake and if they leak and get in to combustion via PCV for example, that is extra fuel the computer did not ask for but it is seeing the 02 sensors going nuts so it starts pulling fuel by shortening injector pulses to put less gas in. Then if you have a vacuum leak and the 02 sensors are reading lean on one or two banks, it will add fuel to try to get the desired A/F ratio by 02 data.

There is so much data available if you have the right scanner, you'll spend more time looking at graphs and data that will lead you to the correct mechanical or electrical diagnosis. And this is completely separate from issues like water getting into the BCM causing shorts or other electrical issues where voltage or signals move to where they are not supposed to be. This is more CANBUS network stuff than your basic why is the car doing this or why is there a CEL and what is the real reason for the CEL, what code is right and what codes were thrown because of the real problem cascading thru the car.

If you are interested in data driven diagnostics on YT look for someone like South Main Auto ( https://www.youtube.com/@SouthMainAuto ) or Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics. Eric at South Main does both mechanical and electrical diagnostics, while Pine Hollow does a lot more electrical stuff.

 

[Zig]

Pre and post scans will only show you what is already flagged by the computer and tossing a code, It is used now in the collision industry to make sure all codes are addressed that were in the car when it came in, and that when it leaves the codes have been fixed AND you did not add any in the repair process.


Here is an example of Mode 6 data vs a scan looking for codes.

My 07 GT had a stumble on acceleration, that flat spot type of stumble we used to feel when accelerator pumps needed replacing in carbs.

No CEL was lit

So I went into mode 6, cylinder contribution and looked at the data and out of the 8 holes there was one that was showing misfires, but not enough to set off the CEL, and another one that had a few more counts than the rest.

The easiest thing to do was to put 2 plugs in it, although some people might have moved coils from cylinder to cylinder, and the tube that runs from the coil pack to the plug itself moved. The reason I went that direction was when I pulled the 2 plugs, that only had 10K miles on them but were 12 years old, I could see the slightest crack in the porcelain on the 2 plugs, so the electricity was leaking out from the plug center and seeking a ground at the hex on the plug.

There are other things you look for such as long and short term fuel trim numbers, both should be in the plus or minus 5% range or less, nothing is exact so the engine is always adding or taking away fuel depending on a bunch of things, but generally it is under 5%, if it is more you have a problem.

You could have unmetered fuel getting in somehow. Some cars have fuel lines and injectors under the intake and if they leak and get in to combustion via PCV for example, that is extra fuel the computer did not ask for but it is seeing the 02 sensors going nuts so it starts pulling fuel by shortening injector pulses to put less gas in. Then if you have a vacuum leak and the 02 sensors are reading lean on one or two banks, it will add fuel to try to get the desired A/F ratio by 02 data.

There is so much data available if you have the right scanner, you'll spend more time looking at graphs and data that will lead you to the correct mechanical or electrical diagnosis. And this is completely separate from issues like water getting into the BCM causing shorts or other electrical issues where voltage or signals move to where they are not supposed to be. This is more CANBUS network stuff than your basic why is the car doing this or why is there a CEL and what is the real reason for the CEL, what code is right and what codes were thrown because of the real problem cascading thru the car.

If you are interested in data driven diagnostics on YT look for someone like South Main Auto ( https://www.youtube.com/@SouthMainAuto ) or Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics. Eric at South Main does both mechanical and electrical diagnostics, while Pine Hollow does a lot more electrical stuff.

See active data logging reveals alot, just gotta know

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