I have a question about the GT tune?

[Junkyard Dog]

Is the Dark Horse redline slightly higher?

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[Junkyard Dog]

There isnt a difference except you paid $20k more for hype.

Really? Once you upgrade your connecting rods, buy the Magneride as a part of your suspension, and swap in a Tremec, is it still a $20k difference? I might have missed some stuff.

Handling package has additional things that would need to be purchased aftermarket, e.g., larger wheels and tires come to mind.

 

[ZXMustang]

Really? Once you upgrade your connecting rods, buy the Magneride as a part of your suspension, and swap in a Tremec, is it still a $20k difference? I might have missed some stuff.

Handling package has additional things that would need to be purchased aftermarket, e.g., larger wheels and tires come to mind.

Hi, Im GT performance pack. How are you?

 

[Zig]

Hi, Im GT performance pack. How are you?

Gt performance pack doesn’t get the tremec. Cams can make a huge difference. But if you’re saying all i need to do is a little tweek here and a tiny tune there and i would have a dark horse convertible then one-of-one it is? Just grab the dark horse table and load them on the gt, why are we waiting for ford if that’s all there is to it?

 

[ZXMustang]

Gt performance pack doesn’t get the tremec. Cams can make a huge difference. But if you’re saying all i need to do is a little tweek here and a tiny tune there and i would have a dark horse convertible then one-of-one it is? Just grab the dark horse table and load them on the gt, why are we waiting for ford if that’s all there is to it?

I’m saying ford did that for you but added a little tq management on top. The DH and GT files are virtually identical. Nothing different across the PCM or TCM accept higher tq management values on the GT on the trans side. And manual v auto for both, the manuals TB is allows to open much faster to the tune of 80* delta per second vs 8* delta on the auto. I assume to allow time for converter lock up in the auto, so ford slowed down the throttle blade.

I’ll show a compare file pic when I get back to the computer. But what I’m telling you is that the GT has the same OEM tunefile with the only changes being more tq management. And when that’s lifted, you end up with the same PCM/TCM performance of the DH.

and I don’t really count the mt82 v Tremec because be honest none of you manual guys are keeping up with an auto car at any level without a big HP advantage especially after I get my trans tune on these cars. Shifts get dropped to 100ms, tq converter lock/unlocks delays are lowered, shift schedules adjusted in every mode, tq management changed, pedal demand and engine tq demand v pedal input all refined. Put my GT with my tune against another 10R80 DH and the dark horse is getting embarrassed. Sorry to say, I had hoped ford did something special with it but it’s just the same as the bullitt/mach1 of the gen3 cars. Same tune but the bullit/mach1 has less tq management and the TB is allowed to open 92* vs 87.125* on the GT which can be changed in a second on a tune.

you think you got more power in the DH, but all ford did was allow less tq output on the GT. Womp womp as my daughter would say.

 

[Zig]

I’m saying ford did that for you but added a little tq management on top. The DH and GT files are virtually identical. Nothing different across the PCM or TCM accept higher tq management values on the GT on the trans side. And manual v auto for both, the manuals TB is allows to open much faster to the tune of 80* delta per second vs 8* delta on the auto. I assume to allow time for converter lock up in the auto, so ford slowed down the throttle blade.

I’ll show a compare file pic when I get back to the computer. But what I’m telling you is that the GT has the same OEM tunefile with the only changes being more tq management. And when that’s lifted, you end up with the same PCM/TCM performance of the DH.

and I don’t really count the mt82 v Tremec because be honest none of you manual guys are keeping up with an auto car at any level without a big HP advantage especially after I get my trans tune on these cars. Shifts get dropped to 100ms, tq converter lock/unlocks delays are lowered, shift schedules adjusted in every mode, tq management changed, pedal demand and engine tq demand v pedal input all refined. Put my GT with my tune against another 10R80 DH and the dark horse is getting embarrassed. Sorry to say, I had hoped ford did something special with it but it’s just the same as the bullitt/mach1 of the gen3 cars. Same tune but the bullit/mach1 has less tq management and the TB is allowed to open 92* vs 87.125* on the GT which can be changed in a second on a tune.

you think you got more power in the DH, but all ford did was allow less tq output on the GT. Womp womp as my daughter would say.

Which makes the gt the lx of the 5.0 days? Gt + ae (which doesn’t make a measurable difference?) + magneride (algorithm) + tune (be it by ford or aftermarket) - the price of a warranty = dh?

 

[ZXMustang]

Which makes the gt the lx of the 5.0 days? Gt + ae (which doesn’t make a measurable difference?) + magneride (algorithm) + tune (be it by ford or aftermarket) - the price of a warranty = dh?

You keep pushing past the original discussion that you paid more for less tq management and the myth of the DH engine being different is just that, a myth. The mach1 guys of the gen3 cars are in the same boat. But dammit you got a tremec at least lol.

 

[Zig]

You keep pushing past the original discussion that you paid more for less tq management and the myth of the DH engine being different is just that, a myth. The mach1 guys of the gen3 cars are in the same boat. But dammit you got a tremec at least lol.

Try again homes, i guess cams and rods don’t make any difference in your electronic book? Didn’t i say it seems we’re saying the gt is the better buy since the difference is driver dependent? You seem to be saying the only difference is at the top end (cough cough cam) where 90% of boy racers will never be able to spend much time at, unless on the closed roadcourse using a fuel specific tune?

 

[ZXMustang]

Try again homes, i guess cams and rods don’t make any difference in your electronic book? Didn’t i say it seems we’re saying the gt is the better buy since the difference is driver dependent? You seem to be saying the only difference is at the top end (cough cough cam) where 90% of boy racers will never be able to spend much time at, unless on the closed roadcourse using a fuel specific tune?

On the contrary, Robert Papini has disassembled both the GT and the DH engines and found no difference in hardware. But we can still pretend right?

Now why wouldnt Ford make any changes to the actual VCT section of the tune if they had put some magically different cams in it? Dont you think they would have changed something? I know they did from gen3 to 4, those cam angles across all map points and optimum power are completely different.

But what do I know, I've only written 1700+ s650 tunes since July...

Here is the complete list of GT to DH differences between the OEM tune file of a 2024 manual GT vs a 2024 Manual DH. You point to where in this list that you think Ford is hiding different cam settings or angles? Or anything power related for that matter. Here's a spoiler, Fueling, airflow (except MP19 update) and spark are completely the same. As well as you guessed it, VCT settings... Lol

MAP Offset VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. Airmass vs. RPM

MAP Quadratic Term VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. Airmass vs. RPM

MAP Slope VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. Airmass vs. RPM

O2 Closed Loop Bias Bank 1

O2 Closed Loop Bias Bank 2

Indicated Engine Torque - VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. RPM vs. Load

Indicated Engine Torque Inverse - VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. RPM vs Torque

IPC Torque Maximum vs. Engine RPM vs. Load

Maximum Torque Lower Hysteresis

Maximum Torque 1 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 1 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 2 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 2 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 3 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 3 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 4 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 4 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Master DTC List

Trans Gear Ratios B vs. Gear

Trans (Manual) 1st Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 1st Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 2nd Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 2nd Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 3rd Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 3rd Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 4th Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 4th Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 5th Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 5th Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 6th Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 6th Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) Reverse Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) Reverse Gear Ratio Min

Clutch Protection Enable Energy

Clutch Protection Torque Limit vs. Clutch Energy vs. Clutch Power

Active Exhaust Position Table 1

Active Exhaust Position Table 2

Active Exhaust Position Table 3

Active Exhaust Position Table 5

Active Exhaust Position Table 6

Speed Limiter Reverse

Speed Limiter Auto Stop/Start

Speed Limiter My Key Minimum

Speed Limiter My Key Maximum

Speed Limiter 4WD Low

Speed Limiter vs. Ambient Temperature 2

Speed Limiter vs. Transmission Oil Temperature

Speed Limiter vs. PTU Temperature

VSS Limit ETC

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Robert Papini found no forged rods? He did hardness testing on the camshafts? Ford committed massive consumer fraud with respect to these two issues? Did he check the balance of the crankshaft, because Ford made claims about that, too?

 

[Zig]

On the contrary, Robert Papini has disassembled both the GT and the DH engines and found no difference in hardware. But we can still pretend right?

Now why wouldnt Ford make any changes to the actual VCT section of the tune if they had put some magically different cams in it? Dont you think they would have changed something? I know they did from gen3 to 4, those cam angles across all map points and optimum power are completely different.

But what do I know, I've only written 1700+ s650 tunes since July...

Here is the complete list of GT to DH differences between the OEM tune file of a 2024 manual GT vs a 2024 Manual DH. You point to where in this list that you think Ford is hiding different cam settings or angles? Or anything power related for that matter. Here's a spoiler, Fueling, airflow (except MP19 update) and spark are completely the same. As well as you guessed it, VCT settings... Lol

MAP Offset VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. Airmass vs. RPM

MAP Quadratic Term VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. Airmass vs. RPM

MAP Slope VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. Airmass vs. RPM

O2 Closed Loop Bias Bank 1

O2 Closed Loop Bias Bank 2

Indicated Engine Torque - VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. RPM vs. Load

Indicated Engine Torque Inverse - VCT Mapped Point 19 vs. RPM vs Torque

IPC Torque Maximum vs. Engine RPM vs. Load

Maximum Torque Lower Hysteresis

Maximum Torque 1 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 1 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 2 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 2 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 3 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 3 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 4 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 4 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Master DTC List

Trans Gear Ratios B vs. Gear

Trans (Manual) 1st Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 1st Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 2nd Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 2nd Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 3rd Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 3rd Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 4th Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 4th Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 5th Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 5th Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) 6th Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) 6th Gear Ratio Min

Trans (Manual) Reverse Gear Ratio Max

Trans (Manual) Reverse Gear Ratio Min

Clutch Protection Enable Energy

Clutch Protection Torque Limit vs. Clutch Energy vs. Clutch Power

Active Exhaust Position Table 1

Active Exhaust Position Table 2

Active Exhaust Position Table 3

Active Exhaust Position Table 5

Active Exhaust Position Table 6

Speed Limiter Reverse

Speed Limiter Auto Stop/Start

Speed Limiter My Key Minimum

Speed Limiter My Key Maximum

Speed Limiter 4WD Low

Speed Limiter vs. Ambient Temperature 2

Speed Limiter vs. Transmission Oil Temperature

Speed Limiter vs. PTU Temperature

VSS Limit ETC

Do ‘they’ (ford) quote rearwheel or flywheel hp/trq?

 

[ZXMustang]

And here is t

Robert Papini found no forged rods? He did hardness testing on the camshafts? Ford committed massive consumer fraud with respect to these two issues? Did he check the balance of the crankshaft, because Ford made claims about that, too?

Yes, they did.

 

[ZXMustang]

Do ‘they’ (ford) quote rearwheel or flywheel hp/trq?

You know they quote flywheel hp.

Here is the differences between a 2025 Auto DH and a 2025 GT PP.

Maximum Torque Lower Hysteresis

Maximum Torque 1 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 1 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 2 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 2 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 3 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 3 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque 4 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Maximum Torque OP 4 vs. Gear. vs. Engine Speed

Master DTC List

4x4 Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

ABS Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Base Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cold Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cooling Reduction 2 Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cooling Reduction 3 Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

DSC Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Inferred Grade Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Inferred Grade Level 2 Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Snow Mode Upshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Traction Control Upshift Map OSS vs. Torque vs. RPM

ABS Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Base Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cold Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cooling Reduction 2 Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cooling Reduction 3 Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

DSC Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Inferred Grade Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Inferred Grade Level 2 Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Snow Mode Downshift Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Trans Downshift Map OSS In Select Shift

4x4 Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

ABS Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Base Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cold Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cooling Reduction 2 Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Cooling Reduction 3 Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

DSC Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Inferred Grade Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Inferred Grade Level 2 Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Mud Mode Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Sand Mode Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Snow Mode Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

Sport Coastdown Map OSS vs. Shift vs. TPS

TCC Lock 4x4 OSS vs. Gear vs. Pedal Position

TCC Slip 4x4 OSS vs. Gear vs. Pedal Position

Transmission Axle Torque Limit

Active Exhaust Position Table 2

Active Exhaust Position Table 3

Active Exhaust Position Table 5

Active Exhaust Position Table 6

Active Exhaust Position Table 7

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Just answering my own first question.

Apparently powdered sintered steel rods.

https://www.facebook.com/100000580527312/videos/pcb.25940896782179651/25029545536735144

And, a more important issue - very tight ring gaps, a concern for boost and heat

 

[ZXMustang]

GT gear tq management

DH gear tq management.

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