Hybrid Mustang (S650E) is on the Horizon!

[Gregs24]

Luckily, due to my age, I will never have to buy a hybrid/EV when they're the only things available.
The very idea of a hyper expensive battery replacement, not to mention all the extra electronic systems is anathema to me. The idea of throw away cars strikes me as insane.
It's why I bought a relatively simple ICE car.

The S650 is not a simple ICE car. The systems are pretty similar across all Ford cars.

Hyper expensive battery replacements are just scare stories, the reality is the EV battery lasts as long as the car. Replacing a blown Coyote is not cheap.

Luckily you can buy a sophisticated modern car and not have to drive around in a craptastic old car from decades ago. I look forwards not back.

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[Gregs24]

Ok...I'll play.

It is already a 4000lb car.
It is already front heavy at 53/47

So lets drop 300+ lbs on the front so we can go really fast in a straight line

Woohoo

The 10R80 MHT is fairly central in the car so additional weight here would have little effect on the balance and the HV battery could be used to make the balance better than currently.

It isn't going to add 300+lb to the total and certainly not all at the front.

 

[smurfslayer]

The S650 is not a simple ICE car. The systems are pretty similar across all Ford cars.

Hyper expensive battery replacements are just scare stories, the reality is the EV battery lasts as long as the car. Replacing a blown Coyote is not cheap.

Luckily you can buy a sophisticated modern car and not have to drive around in a craptastic old car from decades ago. I look forwards not back.

https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2022/10...nd-warranty-for-ford-f-150-lightning-battery/

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/replacing-ford-f-150-lightnings-battery-cheap/

https://www.lightningowners.com/thr...place-the-battery-in-an-f-150-lightning.2559/

And these are just the first 3 hits on an internet search.
Now, this guy seems to have a favorable range test at 38k miles.

I didn't tally the failed battery / module issues but there was definitely > 0 across several forums. So it looks rare but does happen.

But nobody has significant long range reports on the current crop of EV's. Tesla maybe and I haven't dug into them.

From what it looks like, you could replace 3-4 Dark Horse Coyotes for 1 Lightning battery cost.
a long block is ~7k
https://lmr.com/item/M6006M50DH/ford-performance-dark-horse-coyote-long-block-5-0

 

[Farmer Fran]

The 10R80 MHT is fairly central in the car so additional weight here would have little effect on the balance and the HV battery could be used to make the balance better than currently.

It isn't going to add 300+lb to the total and certainly not all at the front.

Go look at the E-Ray. Report back

 

[broncoboy22]

 

[roket]

let's assume they do go hybrid for a second. where is the battery going? on the PowerBoost, the battery takes up space that a larger fuel tank would go. anyone who's been under an S550 or S650 knows that the whole chassis is basically packed to the max. there's no real space for anything, which means one of three things:

1. modified or new unibody panels, highly unlikely due to the cost vs possible take rate.
2. smaller fuel tank, because 16 gallons with a V8 isn't small enough already!
3. tiny battery, which adds little to no real performance benefit unless it's from a dead stop and the battery is fully charged.

the only possible way i can see a hybrid Mustang working is if they do what they did with the Fusion Energi, and sacrifice a third of the trunk space near the rear seats for the hybrid battery. but then that means that the coupes would no longer have pass-through rear seats and the hybrid could not be a convertible. if this is the way, then let's hope Ford doesn't adopt the other Fusion Energi trait of the hybrid battery killing the BECM via overcurrent, making the vehicle 100% unusable until a new revision of the battery can be produced and installed a year and a half later

 

[LouG]

Pardon the interruption but why the doom and gloom. I know another that repeats something similar, in reference to last house and roots. Why the anticipation of the end and not the desire to continue? I mean i understand mortality and all but still why quit before being forced?

Not quitting, but not out of touch with reality either. Yearly licence renewals and medicals start here at 80. Who knows what might happen then. Long life spans run in my fathers side, but I'm counting on 10 maybe 13 more years driving, more will be a blessing.
The means I'll have an 10 - 13 year old Mustang, unless plans change, which will not be an old car, but still a fun one. That's why I doubt I'll ever buy an EV/hybrid.
Also, reality is starting to set in now, and the world seems to be realising that we can't destroy economies in the vain hope of stopping what may be a natural global climate cycle. The battery thing may never be in the majority.
Also, fatalism is in the genes. Italians think they'll die if they sit in a draught.

 

[LouG]

The S650 is not a simple ICE car. The systems are pretty similar across all Ford cars.

Hyper expensive battery replacements are just scare stories, the reality is the EV battery lasts as long as the car. Replacing a blown Coyote is not cheap.

Luckily you can buy a sophisticated modern car and not have to drive around in a craptastic old car from decades ago. I look forwards not back.

You have just confirmed what I said. You will never see 30 or 40 year old Ev's running around

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Well this topic has taken a predictable turn.

 

[broncoboy22]

let's assume they do go hybrid for a second. where is the battery going? on the PowerBoost, the battery takes up space that a larger fuel tank would go. anyone who's been under an S550 or S650 knows that the whole chassis is basically packed to the max. there's no real space for anything, which means one of three things:

1. modified or new unibody panels, highly unlikely due to the cost vs possible take rate.
2. smaller fuel tank, because 16 gallons with a V8 isn't small enough already!
3. tiny battery, which adds little to no real performance benefit unless it's from a dead stop and the battery is fully charged.

the only possible way i can see a hybrid Mustang working is if they do what they did with the Fusion Energi, and sacrifice a third of the trunk space near the rear seats for the hybrid battery. but then that means that the coupes would no longer have pass-through rear seats and the hybrid could not be a convertible. if this is the way, then let's hope Ford doesn't adopt the other Fusion Energi trait of the hybrid battery killing the BECM via overcurrent, making the vehicle 100% unusable until a new revision of the battery can be produced and installed a year and a half later

Another poster said they can fit it underneath the passenger seat or where the spare tire is.

 

[roket]

Another poster said they can fit it underneath the passenger seat or where the spare tire is.

i'm pretty sure there's not nearly enough space under the passenger seat without having a pathetically small battery, and having a battery in the spare tire well could be highly dangerous in a bad enough rear-end collision unless they reinforced it and basically did all new crash dynamics testing and engineering to ensure things still worked correctly and make new parts if not. plus the cost of the extra copper to run the wiring that far back

 

[Zig]

Not quitting, but not out of touch with reality either. Yearly licence renewals and medicals start here at 80. Who knows what might happen then. Long life spans run in my fathers side, but I'm counting on 10 maybe 13 more years driving, more will be a blessing.
The means I'll have an 10 - 13 year old Mustang, unless plans change, which will not be an old car, but still a fun one. That's why I doubt I'll ever buy an EV/hybrid.
Also, reality is starting to set in now, and the world seems to be realising that we can't destroy economies in the vain hope of stopping what may be a natural global climate cycle. The battery thing may never be in the majority.
Also, fatalism is in the genes. Italians think they'll die if they sit in a draught.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I don’t mind the age group exemption but using the check out group category as justification just kinda seems odd.

 

[Gregs24]

You have just confirmed what I said. You will never see 30 or 40 year old Ev's running around

Well there are 15 year old ones so getting there..... Never is a bold word

Assuming you ignore the 20 year old Tesla Roadster's which still work but were not produced at scale.

 

[Gregs24]

let's assume they do go hybrid for a second. where is the battery going? on the PowerBoost, the battery takes up space that a larger fuel tank would go. anyone who's been under an S550 or S650 knows that the whole chassis is basically packed to the max. there's no real space for anything, which means one of three things:

1. modified or new unibody panels, highly unlikely due to the cost vs possible take rate.
2. smaller fuel tank, because 16 gallons with a V8 isn't small enough already!
3. tiny battery, which adds little to no real performance benefit unless it's from a dead stop and the battery is fully charged.

the only possible way i can see a hybrid Mustang working is if they do what they did with the Fusion Energi, and sacrifice a third of the trunk space near the rear seats for the hybrid battery. but then that means that the coupes would no longer have pass-through rear seats and the hybrid could not be a convertible. if this is the way, then let's hope Ford doesn't adopt the other Fusion Energi trait of the hybrid battery killing the BECM via overcurrent, making the vehicle 100% unusable until a new revision of the battery can be produced and installed a year and a half later

You are confusing PHEV and FHEV. FHEV batteries are small enough to fit under a seat etc

Fusion Energi is very old tech now - things have moved on a lot and Ford have been producing FHEV cars for years now. Here is an example - although there is no scale you get an idea of the size.

FORD KUGA HYBRID BATTERY LI-ION 2.5 FHEV MMX68-10B759-CK MK3 2019 - 2025 | eBay UK

 

[Gregs24]

i'm pretty sure there's not nearly enough space under the passenger seat without having a pathetically small battery, and having a battery in the spare tire well could be highly dangerous in a bad enough rear-end collision unless they reinforced it and basically did all new crash dynamics testing and engineering to ensure things still worked correctly and make new parts if not. plus the cost of the extra copper to run the wiring that far back

There are loads of FHEV cars with HV battery under the boot floor or seat. Ford make them such as the Kuga / Escape FHEV. A FHEV battery is only 1.5 to 2 kWh.

Car makers are well aware of the safety requirements.

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