Traction Control

[Starship Enterprise]

Wait, everyone says if you put a couple 40lb sandbags in your trunk you will get through the snow like a 4WD truck

In theory adding weight centered over your rear axle will help with traction in snow. It does…a little.

But take about 40 lbs and stuff it as far behind the rear axle as it will go, and stuff it as far to ONE SIDE of the car as possible, like the Shaker 1000 subwoofer, and watch how fun an aggressive turn becomes.

It was stuffed in the rear passenger side, all the way in the back, and making quick left turns was so sketchy. You could literally feel that weight trying to pull the rear out to the right as you turn.

I removed it just so the car would handle better, and the difference was extremely noticeably improved.

Sponsored

 

[Frogdog1]

Oh I agree. "Power" shouldn't be thought of in terms of spinning tires. As you say, get to know your car, ESPECIALLY if you may end up doing some of these things. I'm just glad to see the recent resurgence of higher power vehicles. Even in the electric market. I do think we'll all be electric at some point. Once they are fueled by hydrogen or something else instead of by huge, toxic, heavy batteries.

We won't be an all electric car country, ever. Sooner or later, the "experts" in the nanny state will realize it costs much more, all costs considered, to make and operate an electric vehicle. Besides, just to accomodate the recharging of these cars would require doubling the grid which will not happen for that reason if for any reason.

The maintenance and needed infrastructure expansion is not happening so that short term gratification can take place. Besides, with the exception of the failed windmills and solar panels from China, electricity comes from carbon and a little water power. Enough of that wishing and hoping. My Mustang and many others pollute less than one windmill. They don't kill birds either.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Once again (actually about a dozen times between myself and about 15 others!)... If you're going to do spirited driving which requires lot of steering input, make darn sure you turn off the stability control!!!! If you don't, the ditch will be your next landing point! While the stability works okay in normal driving, twisties will cause it to (politely) malfunction.

Can you explain what you mean? I did an entire track day in Sport Mode, which does not turn off electronic stability control or traction control (at least I do not think it turns them off, like Track Mode does to some extent), and I did not go off track or in a ditch, nor did the car seem unstable or unpredictable, even when pushing the tires slightly past their limits in the turns.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

We won't be an all electric car country, ever. Sooner or later, the "experts" in the nanny state will realize it costs much more, all costs considered, to make and operate an electric vehicle. Besides, just to accomodate the recharging of these cars would require doubling the grid which will not happen for that reason if for any reason.

The maintenance and needed infrastructure expansion is not happening so that short term gratification can take place. Besides, with the exception of the failed windmills and solar panels from China, electricity comes from carbon and a little water power. Enough of that wishing and hoping. My Mustang and many others pollute less than one windmill. They don't kill birds either.

I think you missed what I said, man. There are already "electric" cars that get their power from burning hydrogen to run their electric motors. THIS is the way I think it will go. Your only emissions are a small amount of water vapor. No huge, heavy and toxic batteries to dispose of or pay $30k+ to replace when they burn out. So much lower weight as well. Yeah, hydrogen can go boom, but so can gasoline tanks. I think that this or some other way will eventually supplant burning gasoline. Much more efficient and more power. At least more power without the cost of emissions.

 

[Frogdog1]

I think you missed what I said, man. There are already "electric" cars that get their power from burning hydrogen to run their electric motors. THIS is the way I think it will go. Your only emissions are a small amount of water vapor. No huge, heavy and toxic batteries to dispose of or pay $30k+ to replace when they burn out. So much lower weight as well. Yeah, hydrogen can go boom, but so can gasoline tanks. I think that this or some other way will eventually supplant burning gasoline. Much more efficient and more power. At least more power without the cost of emissions.

Yes, I think hydrogen would work well, AFTER, all the associated problems with using it are overcome. I apparently did miss the gist of your post. People are working on it right now but progress is very slow. Hydrogen can go boom bigger and quicker than gasoline.

I am, obviously, an oil and gas believing person. There is more of it than people know, it can be very clean, the cost of it is artificially higher than it should be, and a large number of uneducated people are against it for reasons they don't understand. Oil and gas has fed my families from the beginning and I understand it very well. With it, comes a business model no different than making and selling forks and spoons. Separately, let's try doing with out plastic and rubber just for tires. They both come mostly from oil. People need to be careful what they wish for as they get educated and quit yelling about things they don't know anything about. Over and out.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

Yes, I think hydrogen would work well, AFTER, all the associated problems with using it are overcome. I apparently did miss the gist of your post. People are working on it right now but progress is very slow. Hydrogen can go boom bigger and quicker than gasoline.

I am, obviously, an oil and gas believing person. There is more of it than people know, it can be very clean, the cost of it is artificially higher than it should be, and a large number of uneducated people are against it for reasons they don't understand. Oil and gas has fed my families from the beginning and I understand it very well. With it, comes a business model no different than making and selling forks and spoons. Separately, let's try doing with out plastic and rubber just for tires. They both come mostly from oil. People need to be careful what they wish for as they get educated and quit yelling about things they don't know anything about. Over and out.

Yeah, I'm with you. Petroleum products are even FAR more than just gas and oil. We depend on them for a LOT and I don't see that changing any time soon or any time later, actually. Even if we DO move to something like this hydrogen, we'll still need petroleum products for all the other things. Right now that's mechanical hearts, to plastic spoons. It's not going anywhere.

Plus...and I don't want to get political here, but this is just my observation-
IF in fact all the climate change suppositions are real, they center on petroleum products, but miss (in my opinion) this fact. IF all of this "climate change" stuff is valid, that has been almost solely the effect of Europe and North America for industrialization and pollution. Yes, other contributors but MOSTLY those for the past century. So in my opinion, if just North America and Europe for the most part caused this, what the HECK do we do with China and India alone, which will dwarf NA and Europe in volume and effect? Not even counting South America and Africa that will be industrializing more over the coming century. But with just China and India, we're screwed. Doesn't matter WHAT the US does...it won't affect the outcome appreciably. And we already lead the world in carbon emissions reduction.

So the bottom line is, I sure hope all this climate change stuff is flawed, cuz I think we're screwed if it's not. Well, barring some huge technological change that makes a lot of our current tech obsolete. Maybe cold fusion gets cracked and we have no more energy worries?

 

[Frogdog1]

Yeah, I'm with you. Petroleum products are even FAR more than just gas and oil. We depend on them for a LOT and I don't see that changing any time soon or any time later, actually. Even if we DO move to something like this hydrogen, we'll still need petroleum products for all the other things. Right now that's mechanical hearts, to plastic spoons. It's not going anywhere.

Plus...and I don't want to get political here, but this is just my observation-
IF in fact all the climate change suppositions are real, they center on petroleum products, but miss (in my opinion) this fact. IF all of this "climate change" stuff is valid, that has been almost solely the effect of Europe and North America for industrialization and pollution. Yes, other contributors but MOSTLY those for the past century. So in my opinion, if just North America and Europe for the most part caused this, what the HECK do we do with China and India alone, which will dwarf NA and Europe in volume and effect? Not even counting South America and Africa that will be industrializing more over the coming century. But with just China and India, we're screwed. Doesn't matter WHAT the US does...it won't affect the outcome appreciably. And we already lead the world in carbon emissions reduction.

So the bottom line is, I sure hope all this climate change stuff is flawed, cuz I think we're screwed if it's not. Well, barring some huge technological change that makes a lot of our current tech obsolete. Maybe cold fusion gets cracked and we have no more energy worries?

You make all valid points. I do believe in climate change, just not man made climate change. Any petroleum geologist or any other kind of geologist (my father was a petroleum geologist and I have both some education in it and drilling experience) will tell you that climate has changed and will change.....just in time frames we can't imagine....like in millions of years.

Studies of sedimentary rock especially, as well as other rock will point out how climate has changed significantly without the presence of man (we won't get into religion). One way to look at geology is the study of time on earth. Things change drastically but over millions of years which plays into the presence of oil and gas which we enjoy so much.

It isn't evil stuff and there is literally so much of it, that the technology to measure it below ground, in some places, doesn't exist. O&G is a commodity that present day mankind has exploited for both personal gain (somebody has to find it and get it to the surface), as well as gain from taxing. Oh, and lastly, it is used to make some pretty neat stuff. Try doing without it as you say.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The ice age was because of not enough Ford Mustangs. It's true. Scientists have not discovered any Ford Mustangs existing in that time frame.

 

[rijndael]

There were mustangs in the last ice age, but not Mustangs ...

 

[Farmer Fran]

Mine does not do this but it chirps though 3rd gear.

 

[LouG]

I think you missed what I said, man. There are already "electric" cars that get their power from burning hydrogen to run their electric motors. THIS is the way I think it will go. Your only emissions are a small amount of water vapor. No huge, heavy and toxic batteries to dispose of or pay $30k+ to replace when they burn out. So much lower weight as well. Yeah, hydrogen can go boom, but so can gasoline tanks. I think that this or some other way will eventually supplant burning gasoline. Much more efficient and more power. At least more power without the cost of emissions.

But it has the same problem as battery vehicles, low energy density. High pressure cylinders are still bulkier than fuel tanks and can't be shaped to fit in unused space as a fuel tank can.
And, once the climate cult has been discredited, we'll realise refining existing technology is the smart way to go.
Notably, BMW played with hydrogen and haven't proceeded.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

But it has the same problem as battery vehicles, low energy density. High pressure cylinders are still bulkier than fuel tanks and can't be shaped to fit in unused space as a fuel tank can.
And, once the climate cult has been discredited, we'll realise refining existing technology is the smart way to go.
Notably, BMW played with hydrogen and haven't proceeded.

Well, BMW did abandon using Hydrogen for COMBUSTION but have continued to develop fuel cell technology. Might want to look up the BMW IX5, which has been shown quite a bit over the past few year. Toyota actually has a hydrogen fuel cell car for SALE today. It's the 2025 Mirai. So it is out there and it works already. The limitation there, is hydrogen filling stations, much like electric charge stations used to be hard to find. Hydrogen is easy to transport ,etc. Storage is done on a mass basis often using abandoned salt mines. Fascinating stuff!

 

[steveo1960]

My personal opinion is that unless you are at the track and have experience with a RWD car, it's crazy to turn off traction control. I see no reason to not keep it on and the results in the hands of an inexperienced RWD car driver could be catastrophic. The net is filled with videos showing Mustang drivers crashing into walls, trees, curbs etc because they can't handle the car properly. It's just not worth it. Oh and traction control isn't some kind of "gonna save ya stupid butt device" it too can screw up and do unpredictable things but overall it's pretty darn good at protecting the driver. Just my 2 shekels.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

My personal opinion is that unless you are at the track and have experience with a RWD car, it's crazy to turn off traction control. I see no reason to not keep it on and the results in the hands of an inexperienced RWD car driver could be catastrophic. The net is filled with videos showing Mustang drivers crashing into walls, trees, curbs etc because they can't handle the car properly. It's just not worth it. Oh and traction control isn't some kind of "gonna save ya stupid butt device" it too can screw up and do unpredictable things but overall it's pretty darn good at protecting the driver. Just my 2 shekels.

I keep seeing conflicting things though. Some say that having traction control and stability control on is what CAUSES a lot of those mishaps you see on YouTube where someone slams into the crowd or a pole. The one commenter talks about Mustangs having a secret 'target the crowd' feature. Kinda funny the way it's said. But not funny if you're a driver!

 

[Frogdog1]

I keep seeing conflicting things though. Some say that having traction control and stability control on is what CAUSES a lot of those mishaps you see on YouTube where someone slams into the crowd or a pole. The one commenter talks about Mustangs having a secret 'target the crowd' feature. Kinda funny the way it's said. But not funny if you're a driver!

There are times when "automated traction control" as I will call it, is good and times when it simply won't help you and may hurt things. It was a long time ago, but I'm convinced it hurt my efforts to save the rear end of my '07GT before it did a head on into a divider wall.

Things happen so fast sometimes that NOBODY can deal with it. I had tracked cars a lot before this happened but to no avail when mixed with idiots on an interstate. The only good thing about this incident was that it totaled the car, LOL!

Sponsored