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gtstang462002

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GM makes money on every vette that sells above something like $90K

They will milk the C8 mid engine platform for another 10 years, by then all the tooling and design costs will be recovered.

Ford is looking at the 7g and saying they saved a lot of money by using a lot of the same tired design that goes back to 2014, they look at a 4 year refresh and try to figure out how they recover the costs when the whole gas powered Mustang line sold something like 45000 units in 2024 and rumor has it 2025 is not better. The only reason there is a 5.0 Mustang is that Ford is using the same architecture in some trucks.

GM made almost 43000 2024 Vettes, within 2000 units of the Mustang, and they were not Ecoboosts they were all mid engine near Supercar level cars.

Some sources say GM makes a 16% margin on the higher level trims of the C8 .
And at the end of the day the C8 still looks like a praying mantis had sex with a transformer. It just isn't a good looking car. The S650/S550 platforms are much better looking cars. Chevy got the C7 right in the looks department.
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gtstang462002

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It's hard to take anyone that says that the C8 is a bad looking car seriously.
Oh it looks good in photos and from across the parking lot. Up close they aren't a good looking car. Besides if we all liked the same thing life would be boring and we would all be driving the same thing.
 

LouG

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My thought is GM gets all the credit for the time their ZR1 and ZR1X ran. That can't be said for the GTD, Multimatic gets the shine because Ford farmed the hard part out. They may have overseen the project, but they didn't build it.
That's not really fair. I'm not a rabid Ford fan, but their motorsports experience is wide ranging and pretty impresive. It was probably convienient to farm it out.
 

RebelMan

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Ford's CEO should focus on all the recalls they have instead of a lap time for their halo car.
Isn’t that what they have always done? I’ll take Farley and his halo car any day and enjoy the new car wars too.
 


Puddinpop

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Isn’t that what they have always done? I’ll take Farley and his halo car any day and enjoy the new car wars too.
Considering they have 90 recalls in the first 6 months of this year alone no I don't think Ford is doing what they've always done. They've lost the war already. Without Multimatic Ford has nothing. Multimatic should be getting all the credit not Ford or Farley.
 

RebelMan

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The Mustang will never compare to a Porsche and the demographic that buys Mustangs doesn't buy Porsches.
This is terribly short sighted and ignorant. There was a time when people didn’t compare or cross-shop Mustang with M Series either but they do now and have been for several years. Competition is healthy and necessary but only with the best does that make sense.
 

RebelMan

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Considering they have 90 recalls in the first 6 months of this year alone no I don't think Ford is doing what they've always done. They've lost the war already. Without Multimatic Ford has nothing. Multimatic should be getting all the credit not Ford or Farley.
Multimatic, has partnered with numerous brands including Aston Martin, Mercedes, Porche and so on so your rational is juvenile at best. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the rubber meeting the road so by your flawed logic Michelin should get all the praise. Ford and Farley deserves all the credit for it weren't for them we wouldn't even have the GTD.
 

Puddinpop

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This is terribly short sighted and ignorant. There was a time when people didn’t compare or cross-shop Mustang with M Series either but they do now and have been for several years. Competition is healthy and necessary but only with the best does that make sense.
They do that now because the Mustang has stupidly lined themselves up in price with the M series cars. The BMW being tuneable also helped with that transition. You really want to pay Porsche prices for a Mustang GT? Because that's what Ford will start charging if they truly go after Porsche.
 

RebelMan

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They do that now because the Mustang has stupidly lined themselves up in price with the M series cars. The BMW being tuneable also helped with that transition. You really want to pay Porsche prices for a Mustang GT? Because that's what Ford will start charging if they truly go after Porsche.
Not so. The 2012 Boss started the craze, and it was pure performance, not pure price. Tunability is a niche market, so the numbers are moot. People that can afford Porsche prices are going to be indifferent provided that the performance and amenities are also there in a Mustang. It's not there yet, but I would be even more proud to own a Mustang nameplate that could complete on all levels, not less proud. If there is a price for entry, then sobeit. I'll take the trickle downs if I can't.
 

Puddinpop

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Multimatic, has partnered with numerous brands including Aston Martin, Mercedes, Porche and so on so your rational is juvenile at best. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the rubber meeting the road so by your flawed logic Michelin should get all the praise. Ford and Farley deserves all the credit for it weren't for them we wouldn't even have the GTD.
Not so. The 2012 Boss started the craze, and it was pure performance, not pure price. Tunability is a niche market, so the numbers are moot. People that can afford Porsche prices are going to be indifferent provided that the performance and amenities are also there in a Mustang. It's not there yet, but I would be even more proud to own a Mustang nameplate that could complete on all levels, not less proud. If there is a price for entry, then sobeit. I'll take the trickle downs if I can't.
2012 was a long time ago and corporate greed has hit an all time high since COVID-19. Tuning numbers aren't moot. Watch the next quarter sales now they we can officially tune the S650. Your trickle down will be an Ecoboost which at that point the Mustang will be absolute trash and a thing of the past. If Ford wants a Porsche competitor then they should build one but the Mustang ain't it and it never should be. Overpricing and over engineering the Mustang will send it to an early grave. The Mustang is already struggling to sell at its price now.
 

Frogdog1

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Products are what they are largely due to corporate greed now. The old concept like I operated under, benefit for the customer, employees, and other stakeholders is out the window. Government intervention plowed the field to partially force that. At one time, I would never have believed that but seeing is believing now. Sad but true. Whores don't last long.
 

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100% fair, it’s what actually happened.
 

RebelMan

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2012 was a long time ago and corporate greed has hit an all time high since COVID-19. Tuning numbers aren't moot. Watch the next quarter sales now they we can officially tune the S650. Your trickle down will be an Ecoboost which at that point the Mustang will be absolute trash and a thing of the past. If Ford wants a Porsche competitor then they should build one but the Mustang ain't it and it never should be. Overpricing and over engineering the Mustang will send it to an early grave. The Mustang is already struggling to sell at its price now.
The time is relevant. What isn't is your comment on corporate greed. You don't know that, but it makes you feel better to say it. Sales are not going to wildly jump up unless prices wildly go down (which will be helped by the recent incentives NOT tuning). You overlooked that part of your assessment.

Look, I get where you are coming from. You want the car to remain affordable for the majority and so do I. However, I also want the car to improve and to compete with the best of them (you obviously don't). Camaro and Challenger/Charger are no longer the competition, so who is? BMW and Porsche.

Ford is doing the right thing, and they are providing a tier of models to meet every budget and yet some people are going to be priced out. That's not corporate greed, that is survival of the fittest.

It bears repeating... Mustang is the number one sports car in sales by far. Farley and Ford know this. What you see as trash and struggle they see as successful achievement. So do I.
 
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robvas

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The Mustang is also becoming less popular every year
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