Went to test drive a GT 6spd.... Is low end torque improved in the S650?

[CamustangSS650]

Hi,

I just test drove a 24 Gt manual. I wanted to test one with PP and 3.73 gears but they didn't have any. So I drove one with 3.55, Premium.

My last recall driving a GT was that low end torque was not quite there compared to camaros. But I noticed that 1st to 4th gear had a nice low end punch. 5th-6th didn't but they're are really tall.

Did the s650 came with an improvement in low end torque or am I dreaming? Even if peak is the same, the curve could have improved at low rpm.
How noticeable is the difference between 3.55 and 3.73.?

I currently own a camaro ss 10speed, I thought in lower gears I was going to feel the GT slower but I didnt' for some reson.

Sponsored

 

[Rocket Man]

the difference between 3.55 and 3.73 will be minimal.
Once tuning is unlocked a change to 4.09 would be a nice improvement

 

[robvas]

Couldn't have changed the torque that much, it's still the same engine

 

[Eurasianman]

Don't quote me on this, but I could have sworn I saw a dyno graph showing that the 4th gen Coyote has slightly higher low-end torque and holds the torque a lot stronger throughout the rev range than the previous gen.

 

[EgoBoost]

Well there is a HP jump which is probably what you felt. The 3.73 does make a difference. It’s the only way I’d buy one in a manual until tuning opens up.

 

[robvas]

1. What do you define as 'low end'? You're not going to find a dyno chart showing 1200rpm for example

2. There is a little blip in the torque at 2750, the tune is a little more agressive on the 2024. Would like to see the dyno of a tuned 2018+ for comparison

3. Most of the HP gain is after 6500rpm or so with the 2024. Again, would be nice to see compared to a tuned 2018+ becuase the factory tune seems to be a bit more agressive than before

4. has anyone verified if the gen 4 has the same cam specs as gen 3?

 

[CamustangSS650]

the difference between 3.55 and 3.73 will be minimal.
Once tuning is unlocked a change to 4.09 would be a nice improvement

5% difference. But I'd rather get the 3.73 if possible and and not bother with mods later.
3.73 to 4.09 is almost 10%.

Don't quote me on this, but I could have sworn I saw a dyno graph showing that the 4th gen Coyote has slightly higher low-end torque and holds the torque a lot stronger throughout the rev range than the previous gen.

I was impressed when I floored it at 1500rpm in 3rd. It moved.

Well there is a HP jump which is probably what you felt. The 3.73 does make a difference. It’s the only way I’d buy one in a manual until tuning opens up.

Agree, I already settled for a A10 instad of a manual, this time I'll get the right one.

What do you define as 'low end'? You're not going to find a dyno chart showing 1200rpm for example

I mean 1200 rpm to 3000 rpm. I know dyno charts don't show generally, but there is a curve down there and Manufacturers do focus on that rpm range, that's where most people drive all the time.

 

[EgoBoost]

I recall reading somewhere that car manufacturers have purposely neutered the manual transmissions with tall gearing to nudge consumers towards the automatics. It appears to have worked.

 

[CamustangSS650]

I recall reading somewhere that car manufacturers have purposely neutered the manual transmissions with tall gearing to nudge consumers towards the automatics. It appears to have worked.

Compared to the 60's and 70's 4 speed cars yes. You would do 65 @4000 rpm in that era.
Tall gearing it's a long trend, my 93 vette had the 6 speed and 6th gear was useless below 70mph. You were barely turning 1500 rpm.

I think keeping the RPM's low is key to pass the epa standards. Manufacurers avoid the 1k gas guzzler tax, but I don't mind paying it to have a car properly geared.

 

[Zengineer]

I recall reading somewhere that car manufacturers have purposely neutered the manual transmissions with tall gearing to nudge consumers towards the automatics. It appears to have worked.

I think car makers prefer automatics, partly because it's easier to get fuel efficiency and drivesbility dialed in when you can control both the engine and transmission together. People prefer to buy them for many different reasons. I don't think "it's faster" is very high on either side's list.

If I had just one vehicle it would be an automatic. As long as I have more than one, at least one will be a manual.

 

[robvas]

Tall gearing it's a long trend, my 93 vette had the 6 speed and 6th gear was useless below 70mph. You were barely turning 1500 rpm.

My dad has a 94 or 95 Corvette, automatic, with a 2.59 rear gear

 

[Karguy]

The Coyote definitely has yhe least amount of Torque of the 3 domestic V8 engines…And the gearing is tall for noise and mpg reasons…The A10 will be faster but the manual will be more fun And I would spend the extra money for the Tremec instead of the MT82…Shorter reardrive even if only 5% definitely feels stronger ! 2000 rpm is 2100 rpm but at 7000 rpm the difference goes up to 350 rpm difference…

 

[CamustangSS650]

I actually did some math and I think the 3.73 is there to correct wheel size...

The baseline is the regular GT, 3.55, with 255 tires. That's the "long gear" mustang.
Followed by GT + PP with 2.54% shorter final corrected by wheel size.... I don't think it's noticeable. Any 1/4 mile improvement should be because of better grip caused by the 275's and maybe the torsen.

Then Dark Horse w/275 only 3% shorter. 0.4% apart from GT+PP.

Last the most expensive DH with 315's 7.24% shorter. (Caused by wheel + tire).

<a href="https://ibb.co/kQfGhHQ">

I calculated this using 1st gear as a baseline. Since MT and TR have different ratios, this might affect but its 0.1% ATM when comparted to 1:1 ratios.

Wheel Diameters:

275/40/19	702.6​	mm
255/40/19	686.6​	mm
315/30/19	671.6​	mm

 

[Zig]

I actually did some math and I think the 3.73 is there to correct wheel size...

The baseline is the regular GT, 3.55, with 255 tires. That's the "long gear" mustang.
Followed by GT + PP with 2.54% shorter final corrected by wheel size.... I don't think it's noticeable. Any 1/4 mile improvement should be because of better grip caused by the 275's and maybe the torsen.

Then Dark Horse w/275 only 3% shorter. 0.4% apart from GT+PP.

Last the most expensive DH with 315's 7.24% shorter. (Caused by wheel + tire).

<a href="https://ibb.co/kQfGhHQ">

I calculated this using 1st gear as a baseline. Since MT and TR have different ratios, this might affect but its 0.1% ATM when comparted to 1:1 ratios.

Wheel Diameters:

275/40/19	702.6​	mm
255/40/19	686.6​	mm
315/30/19	671.6​	mm

I like my chances.

 

[robvas]

Those tall GT gears are why 4.09's make sense

Sponsored