How do we save the mustang?

[9secondko]

You are now talking to yourself

Actually I am talking to my fellow mustang enthusiasts, which, based on your latest post, doesn’t include you. This thread has no doubt run its course for a while. However, even though it’s Shelby American, the 350 is definitely a reminder that the Mustang we know and love is headed in the right direction.

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[9secondko]

WTH is a GT360?

is the gt350 after Thanksgiving.

 

[Rocket Man]

oh well, that explains it then.

 

[Jonyxz]

Lets play the wishing game...

Transaxle for weight distribution
Shorter wheelbase and smaller dims(no rear seats) for weight saving
All Wheel Drive for better traction
V8 ofcourse with a boosted option and tuning ability

Regarding design, I wish iconic car automakers would go backwards adding all the modern engineering into the equation of classic cars. There's an emerging trend of resto modders applying this formula with some old iconic cars and I think it would be amazing seeing this concept applied to mass produced cars for a relatively affordable price. Let the electric cars struggle to look like sterile dishwashers.

This Totem Super GT is a perfect example in my opinion. I would be all over a modern classic mass produced Mustang like this.

 

[DevilDog]

How do we save the Mustang? Lots of bubble wrap and jack stands.

 

[9secondko]

How do we save the Mustang? Lots of bubble wrap and jack stands.

preserve and save are different words.

preserve is the language of death.

save is the language of life.

I know you’re being tongue in cheek, but…

we don’t want dead monuments to bygone days.

we want to see the mustang thrive, getting better and better for gerations to come.

 

[DevilDog]

I know you’re being tongue in cheek, but…

I was, and apparently didn't succeed with the entire crowd.

 

[9secondko]

I was, and apparently didn't succeed with the entire crowd.

tee hee!

 

[JM150]

I don’t understand how people think an EcoBoost as the flagship saves anything. Look at the F-150 EPA sticker, the 3.5 EB and 5.0 V8 both make the same NoX and carbon emissions. The 3.5 EcoBoost is at the end of its production life cycle and is BARELY squeaking by with an EGR that was added as a last ditch effort to meet stricter emissions for 2021. The HO version of the 3.5 has horrid emissions, worse than the V8.

Hybrid V8 is the answer for this car imo.

 

[smurfslayer]

I don’t understand how people think an EcoBoost as the flagship saves anything. Look at the F-150 EPA sticker, the 3.5 EB and 5.0 V8 both make the same NoX and carbon emissions. The 3.5 EcoBoost is at the end of its production life cycle and is BARELY squeaking by with an EGR that was added as a last ditch effort to meet stricter emissions for 2021. The HO version of the 3.5 has horrid emissions, worse than the V8.

Hybrid V8 is the answer for this car imo.

IDK... can the 5.0 F150 pull 21 mpg?
Also, what does the 5.0 torque curve look like compared to the 3.5TT?

These are, of course, rhetorical questions because they’ve already been answered. The 3.5TT HO can send the almost 3 TON Raptor to 60 in about 5.5 seconds, and make S/A to El Paso on one tank of gas.

Now, would I want it in the Mustang? more than the 4 banger EB but Is that even an option?

Hybrid V8 sounds good, but you can look to the Lincoln Aviator for the current implementation tech Ford is using. Maybe next gen will improve things, but, currently the Aviator is generating huge numbers, especially torque, but, it’s only besting the Exploder ST in the 1/4 mile by about .2 seconds because of the weight penalty.

Weight is already a concern on the 2 ton Mustang, you want to talk about adding another 800 pounds? That means new magna-ride, new springs, tires, probably a few more suspension hard parts, frame reinforcements. It wont’ be a simple swap.

Hopefully they can implement a low weight, hybrid powertrain, not degrade the handling and performance and not have prices skyrocket out of control.

 

[9secondko]

I don’t understand how people think an EcoBoost as the flagship saves anything. Look at the F-150 EPA sticker, the 3.5 EB and 5.0 V8 both make the same NoX and carbon emissions. The 3.5 EcoBoost is at the end of its production life cycle and is BARELY squeaking by with an EGR that was added as a last ditch effort to meet stricter emissions for 2021. The HO version of the 3.5 has horrid emissions, worse than the V8.

Hybrid V8 is the answer for this car imo.

IDK... can the 5.0 F150 pull 21 mpg?
Also, what does the 5.0 torque curve look like compared to the 3.5TT?

These are, of course, rhetorical questions because they’ve already been answered. The 3.5TT HO can send the almost 3 TON Raptor to 60 in about 5.5 seconds, and make S/A to El Paso on one tank of gas.

Now, would I want it in the Mustang? more than the 4 banger EB but Is that even an option?

Hybrid V8 sounds good, but you can look to the Lincoln Aviator for the current implementation tech Ford is using. Maybe next gen will improve things, but, currently the Aviator is generating huge numbers, especially torque, but, it’s only besting the Exploder ST in the 1/4 mile by about .2 seconds because of the weight penalty.

Weight is already a concern on the 2 ton Mustang, you want to talk about adding another 800 pounds? That means new magna-ride, new springs, tires, probably a few more suspension hard parts, frame reinforcements. It wont’ be a simple swap.

Hopefully they can implement a low weight, hybrid powertrain, not degrade the handling and performance and not have prices skyrocket out of control.

And that’s why they should just go ahead and turbocharge the v8.

 

[JM150]

IDK... can the 5.0 F150 pull 21 mpg?
Also, what does the 5.0 torque curve look like compared to the 3.5TT?

These are, of course, rhetorical questions because they’ve already been answered. The 3.5TT HO can send the almost 3 TON Raptor to 60 in about 5.5 seconds, and make S/A to El Paso on one tank of gas.

Now, would I want it in the Mustang? more than the 4 banger EB but Is that even an option?

Hybrid V8 sounds good, but you can look to the Lincoln Aviator for the current implementation tech Ford is using. Maybe next gen will improve things, but, currently the Aviator is generating huge numbers, especially torque, but, it’s only besting the Exploder ST in the 1/4 mile by about .2 seconds because of the weight penalty.

Weight is already a concern on the 2 ton Mustang, you want to talk about adding another 800 pounds? That means new magna-ride, new springs, tires, probably a few more suspension hard parts, frame reinforcements. It wont’ be a simple swap.

Hopefully they can implement a low weight, hybrid powertrain, not degrade the handling and performance and not have prices skyrocket out of control.

Fuel mileage is an exact match between the 5.0 V8 & 3.5 EB. Both are 16 City/ 24 HWY for a 4x4 F-150:

 

[smurfslayer]

And that’s why they should just go ahead and turbocharge the v8.

It would sound better, but would have more parasitic loss.

Fuel mileage is an exact match between the 5.0 V8 & 3.5 EB. Both are 16 City/ 24 HWY for a 4x4 F-150:

I’m going to guess that the 3.5 HO they’re quoting is the Raptor with either 35 or 37” tires. Do they still put that in the platinum F150? That truck is a bunch lighter, and doesn’t sport 4.10’s. I wonder if these numbers are aggregated for different gear ratio. The closest I can see to “apples to apples” - and I did not dig far, first hit on internet search:

https://www.tomwoodford.com/ford-f-...stimated 19/25/21 MPG (City/Highway/Combined)

Tremor to Tremor shows the EB at a +1 advantage across the board to the 302 .

Even with 4.10’s, wife, dog, luggage and beach time I can pull almost 21mpg in the Raptor and as much as 17.5 on high speed interstate - think I 10W towards Texas.

I love the Coyote in the Mustang & Dark Horse, but it would not fare as well in a 3 ton truck. All the Coyote torque is up high, the EB torque is early.

But all of this is just to point out, it’s likely just not as simple as we would like to think.

 

[JM150]

It would sound better, but would have more parasitic loss.



I’m going to guess that the 3.5 HO they’re quoting is the Raptor with either 35 or 37” tires. Do they still put that in the platinum F150? That truck is a bunch lighter, and doesn’t sport 4.10’s. I wonder if these numbers are aggregated for different gear ratio. The closest I can see to “apples to apples” - and I did not dig far, first hit on internet search:

https://www.tomwoodford.com/ford-f-150-mpg.htm#:~:text=The 5.0-liter V-8 engine allows the 2024,up to an EPA-estimated 16/24/19 MPG (City/Highway/Combined).&text=2.7-Liter EcoBoost V-6: Up to an EPA-estimated 19/25/21 MPG (City/Highway/Combined)

Tremor to Tremor shows the EB at a +1 advantage across the board to the 302 .

Even with 4.10’s, wife, dog, luggage and beach time I can pull almost 21mpg in the Raptor and as much as 17.5 on high speed interstate - think I 10W towards Texas.

I love the Coyote in the Mustang & Dark Horse, but it would not fare as well in a 3 ton truck. All the Coyote torque is up high, the EB torque is early.

But all of this is just to point out, it’s likely just not as simple as we would like to think.

The F-150 5.0L has much longer and larger intake runners and a lower profile lobe on the intake cam. The 5.0 in the F-150 has about 60 lb ft more torque than the Mustang version at 2,500 rpm so they aren’t exactly apples to apples. There is a good video where they put the GT manifold on an F-150…..just the GT manifold robbed 40 lb ft of torque from the F-150 below 3,000 rpm, and that’s still with the torque biased truck cam. I also have a 5.0L in my 23’ F-150 that tows my boat and dual axle enclosed trailer, it does a lot better than my previous 5.4 Triton towing and returns good MPG. My average to date is 20 even with a lot of highway and a good mix of towing.

 

[9secondko]

It would sound better, but would have more parasitic loss.



I’m going to guess that the 3.5 HO they’re quoting is the Raptor with either 35 or 37” tires. Do they still put that in the platinum F150? That truck is a bunch lighter, and doesn’t sport 4.10’s. I wonder if these numbers are aggregated for different gear ratio. The closest I can see to “apples to apples” - and I did not dig far, first hit on internet search:

https://www.tomwoodford.com/ford-f-150-mpg.htm#:~:text=The 5.0-liter V-8 engine allows the 2024,up to an EPA-estimated 16/24/19 MPG (City/Highway/Combined).&text=2.7-Liter EcoBoost V-6: Up to an EPA-estimated 19/25/21 MPG (City/Highway/Combined)

Tremor to Tremor shows the EB at a +1 advantage across the board to the 302 .

Even with 4.10’s, wife, dog, luggage and beach time I can pull almost 21mpg in the Raptor and as much as 17.5 on high speed interstate - think I 10W towards Texas.

I love the Coyote in the Mustang & Dark Horse, but it would not fare as well in a 3 ton truck. All the Coyote torque is up high, the EB torque is early.

But all of this is just to point out, it’s likely just not as simple as we would like to think.

it would sound better, be way faster and more powerful, and get around the same mileage and emissions, if not slightly worse. You’d barely have to boost the 8 compared to pushing the 4 and 6.

Also differences between the truck engine curve and the mustang engine curve.

when tje v8 is boosted, it’s torque will hit early as well.

we are comparing apples to apples. Not na vs boost.

Time to ecoboost the v8.

it’s a win-win

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