Driving Tips - Manual Transmission

[TcarterGT2024]

I’m a transmission braker. I only go into neutral just before a complete stop.

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[Guido]

I'll add a curve ball. At times when I'm coasting up to a stop light/sign, I'll take the car out of gear into neutral without using the clutch. Using the right amount of light throttle and a little pressure on the shift lever (at lower speeds), the trans slides out of gear without touching the clutch. My 2011 GT had 85,000 miles when I sold it, and the MT-82 was problem free. Down the road when I'm, feeling brave I'll upshift the same way just for fun.

 

[Redback]

I think the only time I'm in neural is while I'm warming up in the driveway. Other than that, always in gear.

 

[Jim Hendrickson]

I typically shift down the gears when I'm coming to a stop, been doing it for years. I have not heard much about coasting to neutral written in stone on how to drive a manual to be honest, just users opinions on the matter. How do you typically drive it?

I agree, "almost" always down shift. It sounds good, saves breaks and makes driving fun, it's why I bought a standard. I typically limit downshifts to less than 4000RPM. No impact on gas usage (except RPM bump of rev match), minimal wear on car as oil flow will be high and the forces are low compared with spirited acceleration. As I tell my wife, you have to exercise the engine it keeps deposits down and keep the rings active.

 

[Jim Hendrickson]

Down shifting asks the question. Do you want to replace a clutch or the brakes. Down shifting is good if your going to be in it for a while but stop signs I wouldn't do unless my brakes failed.

Break pads can be replaced much cheaper and easier than clutch components. Different argument; it's fun and as long as you rev-matched or close and perform the clutch engagement smoothly the forces and engine RPMs are low should be little wear.

 

[Redback]

I agree, "almost" always down shift. It sounds good, saves breaks and makes driving fun, it's why I bought a standard. I typically limit downshifts to less than 4000RPM. No impact on gas usage (except RPM bump of rev match), minimal wear on car as oil flow will be high and the forces are low compared with spirited acceleration. As I tell my wife, you have to exercise the engine it keeps deposits down and keep the rings active.

I’m actually floored that not everybody does this. I’ve always thought downshifting was just part of driving a manual transmission. Can’t imagine doing it any other way.

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

Theres a dude who daily drives his 996 Porsche Turbo on the east coast and has racked up over 700,000 miles on it. Lots of that is in stop and go traffic. He's also tracked and autocrossed that Porsche fairly extensively.

In the lifetime of that car, he has had to replace the clutch twice. Once because the disc wore out, and once because the Transmission let go, so he may as well swap the disc out anyway.

Most people don't really want to admit it, but the clutch disk (while yes, is absolutely a wear item) can easily last what could be considered the lifetime of the vehicle so long as you don't suck at driving. Most people do suck though, they slip the clutch, hold the clutch pedal down at red lights, and don't downshift correctly.

Its honest to god a skill issue if you can't get a clutch to last at least 150K miles unless you're putting down extra power, or have an external issue, like oil on the disk or a broken finger on the pressure plate.

My old MK4 GTI reached the end of its life at 250,000 miles, and it was still on its original clutch.

My vote is for downshifting unless you have a good reason not to.

 

[Redback]

Theres a dude who daily drives his 996 Porsche Turbo on the east coast and has racked up over 700,000 miles on it. Lots of that is in stop and go traffic. He's also tracked and autocrossed that Porsche fairly extensively.

In the lifetime of that car, he has had to replace the clutch twice. Once because the disc wore out, and once because the Transmission let go, so he may as well swap the disc out anyway.

Most people don't really want to admit it, but the clutch disk (while yes, is absolutely a wear item) can easily last what could be considered the lifetime of the vehicle so long as you don't suck at driving. Most people do suck though, they slip the clutch, hold the clutch pedal down at red lights, and don't downshift correctly.

Its honest to god a skill issue if you can't get a clutch to last at least 150K miles unless you're putting down extra power, or have an external issue, like oil on the disk or a broken finger on the pressure plate.

My old MK4 GTI reached the end of its life at 250,000 miles, and it was still on its original clutch.

My vote is for downshifting unless you have a good reason not to.

How does holding the clutch pedal down at red lights contribute to wear? I had a vehicle many years ago that I bought brand new, and sold with over 300,000 km on it and never replace the clutch. Over 200K km on the front brake pads. Car in gear, clutch engaged at every red light.

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

How does holding the clutch pedal down at red lights contribute to wear? I had a vehicle many years ago that I bought brand new, and sold with over 300,000 km on it and never replace the clutch. Over 200K km on the front brake pads. Car in gear, clutch engaged at every red light.

It leads to excessive wear on the throwout bearing.

I've seen throwout bearings overheat and wear out within 50K miles with the clutch still being fine. Bad habit that can expose flaws in an item that otherwise wouldn't have an issue.

Certainly not to say it will be a problem in every throwout bearing, but its common enough to be a consideration

 

[Redback]

It leads to excessive wear on the throwout bearing.

I've seen throwout bearings overheat and wear out within 50K miles with the clutch still being fine. Bad habit that can expose flaws in an item that otherwise wouldn't have an issue.

Certainly not to say it will be a problem in every throwout bearing, but its common enough to be a consideration

Interesting! I have no idea what a throwout bearing even is LOL. I'm going to research it. So what your saying is best practice after downshifting to a red light is to sit in neutral, clutch out?

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

Interesting! I have no idea what a throwout bearing even is LOL. I'm going to research it. So what your saying is best practice after downshifting to a red light is to sit in neutral, clutch out?

Theoretically, yes.

Its really just a probability game that you're playing, as with anything.

What are the odds that your throwout is predisposed for failure, or the design is -to a degree- already not ideal? What if the bearing already has some grit in it from the X amount of working hours it has seen? By sitting on the clutch and keeping it spinning for a longer period of time, allowing it to get hotter and hotter, and keeping that force pressed up to it, you're just increasing the odds that it goes bad sooner rather than later. I have personally seen it a few times myself in customer cars. Customer complains that the clutch isn't engaging correctly, or that theres a loud groaning when they put the clutch in, so you take the tranny out and see the throwout is completely toast.

In most of those cases, the customer does, in fact, sit on the clutch. Its just how it goes.

Its just like smoking cigarettes. Smoking ciggies doesn't automatically cement your fate of having lung cancer, though it greatly increases your odds.

 

[Redback]

Fascinating! That means changing a 50-year-old practice. I was taught back in the day... never in neutral. I also ride a bike, same deal. Never in neutral. Mind you, there's more at stake on a bike if you need to take quick evasive action.

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

Listen, I'm not saying you have to, or anything like that. Just what I've seen and learned in my short few years. If its any consolation, I've never personally seen a throwout bearing fail on anything newer than 2015, but then again, I didn't work on many modern cars.

 

[Zig]

How does holding the clutch pedal down at red lights contribute to wear? I had a vehicle many years ago that I bought brand new, and sold with over 300,000 km on it and never replace the clutch. Over 200K km on the front brake pads. Car in gear, clutch engaged at every red light.

If i’m sitting still i don’t need a gear

Fascinating! That means changing a 50-year-old practice. I was taught back in the day... never in neutral. I also ride a bike, same deal. Never in neutral. Mind you, there's more at stake on a bike if you need to take quick evasive action.

if i’m sitting still i don’t need a gear, since i don’t need a gear why am i holding the clutch?

gear down on bike is a reflex, coasting in neutral is acceptable since the clutch allows you to step up or down wherever you need to be. Not too much like kicking down to first and locking the rear tire fishtailing to a stop just barely behind the line though.

 

[Jim Hendrickson]

Interesting! I have no idea what a throwout bearing even is LOL. I'm going to research it. So what your saying is best practice after downshifting to a red light is to sit in neutral, clutch out?

Absolutely, I put it in neutral, clutch out, at any stop if the wait is longer than a few seconds.

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