Shoe shopping - is Forged worth it?

[24CTDH]

looking for some strong opinions this morning!

the stock tires are coming to the end of their life here on the ole 24 non hp darkhorse. before i buy new rubber im considering moving up in wheel size to either 19x10 19x11 vs 20x10 20x11 thus im looking at wheels.

Whats everyones opinion on forged wheels? are they worth the significant $ increase? looking at the weight savings alone between for example, a set of apex wheels, and the factory wheels does seem significant. it seems significant enough certainly to make more hp.....but other than a few extra ponies is there really anything a daily driver is going to notice? people talk about improved 'feel' in their suspension and appreciating the grip of their tires more.......is there truth to that???


follow up question - does anyone recommend another brand of lightweight forged wheels to shop such as Apex? Apex appears super legit. some of these other online companies ive googled look sketch at best

thank you for your thoughts, let em fly!

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[robvas]

I went with flow formed wheels

Pretty light and a lot cheaper

 

[Wiley Marmot]

I went with flow formed wheels

Pretty light and a lot cheaper

Me too. VERY satisfied!

CAVEAT I dropped from OEM 20 x 9s to a staggered 19 x10F and 19 x 11R flow formed set up. OEM 20 x9s were approx 38 lbs/ea vs less than 30lbs for the 19 x 10 FFs.

Good luck with whatever you go with!

 

[smurfslayer]

im considering moving up in wheel size to either 19x10 19x11 vs 20x10 20x11 thus im looking at wheels.

looking at the weight savings alone between for example, a set of apex wheels, and the factory wheels does seem significant. it seems significant enough certainly to make more hp

Something to keep in mind is "all things being equal". If you change tires, what's the weight of the tire you're going to vs. the stockers? Are you going back to the same rubber?

If you're going up a size or 2, compare your stock wheel/tire weight to the go to wheel/tire weight.

is there really anything a daily driver is going to notice?

No. You're talking about maybe dropping, what, 10# per corner, if that? Let's use 10 as a nice round number for a total of 40 pound drop. Your car weighs about 4,000 pounds. So a roughly 1% weight drop.

"But it's unsprung weight" - and still only a 1% weight drop.
Edit to add: See the video links below for some actual power numbers related to lighter wheels on the dyno & track.

people talk about improved 'feel' in their suspension and appreciating the grip of their tires more.......is there truth to that???

No. At least as far as the M7G readership is concerned. Could the Stig appreciate the difference? Probably. If we're talking about how much better the car feels, likely it's because we want to rationalize dropping $2k + on wheels for our ride.

I've got lighter weight wheels on my Raptor - 14# per wheel lighter and have c/f wheels on my ZX10r. had them on my old ZX11, 2 previous Mustangs, and I'm probably forgetting a few. My ZX11 had over 150 dyno runs; had her 16 years, and she was constantly getting modded. I've yet to see anything on the dyno from lightweight wheels/tires from any vehicle.

Now, who is going to get heavier wheels to go faster, right? Of course we want lighter weight on a performance car. Just have reasonable expectations.

(yeah, I'm probably getting a spare set for my Dark Horse too)

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Just so we are all talking about the same thing here, flow formed forged means that the rims are forged but the centers are cast.

So if you can afford it, forged are better than flow formed.

The question is whether you can afford it or not and whether it makes a difference. Ford sticks cast wheels on the Dark Horse handling package, which means I am hitting the track with cast wheels.

But, yes, fully forged are better.

 

[robvas]

Lighter wheels definitely show a gain on the dyno and a tenth in the 1/4

 

[24CTDH]

Wiley -thank you! and what exactly did you feel improved or changed in your driving experience by dropping those pounds? .... you did change quite a bit at once so it might be hard to differentiate out the other variables i suppose

 

[Junkyard Dog]

If I were buying a dedicated pair of track wheels, I would definitely be trying to purchase fully forged.

I believe a difference would show up in the lap times, but they would also be stronger for the lighter weight.

 

[24CTDH]

Just so we are all talking about the same thing here, flow formed forged means that the rims are forged but the centers are cast.

yes yes i meant fully forged. I should have been more clear.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

On the kart track, we tested the heavy Masitaly wheels first, then the lightweight Volks. Then we retested the heavy wheels to correct for any changes in weather, track conditions, and the driver becoming accustomed to the course. This test showed clear differences both on the kart track and at the strip. Times were substantially worse with the heavy wheels, which slowed the car by 0.31 second on the average lap and 0.46 second on even the best lap. Even though Alan’s final run on the heavy wheels was substantially quicker, it still was 0.16 second behind his best time on the light wheels.

0-60 times:

Volk TE37 8.61 Volk w/ ballast 8.75 Masitaly 9.04

Our zero-to-60 launch was our big test of angular inertia, and it showed substantial results. We ran three tests here, the third with the lightweight wheels and an additional 42 pounds of ballast in the trunk. This would illustrate the difference made by the fact that the heavy wheels aren’t just weighing down the car, they’re increasing the amount of energy required to spin them. That test was fruitful, too. Though the ballast slowed the car’s zero-to-60 time by 0.14 second compared to the Miata equipped with simply the light wheels, putting that weight on the hubs slowed the car by an additional 0.29 second.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/are-lighter-wheels-really-better/

 

[Junkyard Dog]

yes yes i meant fully forged. I should have been more clear.

Wiley, whom you cited above, and others, are talking about flow formed. I just wanted to make sure we all knew what we were discussing.

I would venture a guess that flow formed sell lots more wheels than forged, just due to cost. Apex, which you mentioned, sells both. The cost difference is significant.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

0-60 times and 40-100 times with a more powerful car than a Miata

 

[24CTDH]

Wiley, whom you cited above, and others, are talking about flow formed. I just wanted to make sure we all knew what we were discussing.

I would venture a guess that flow formed sell lots more wheels than forged, just due to cost. Apex, which you mentioned, sells both. The cost difference is significant.

oh wow thats a great article, thank you for linking that.

Yeah fully forged wheels are no joke in price. i figure if im going to splurge on new wheels.....just go the whole way and go fully forged

Im hoping to find a set on a black friday/cyber monday deal coming up so trying to do some research beforehand

Are there any highly reputable brands putting out Forged wheels other than Apex youd recommend comparing/contrasting with??

 

[24CTDH]

No. At least as far as the M7G readership is concerned. Could the Stig appreciate the difference? Probably. If we're talking about how much better the car feels, likely it's because we want to rationalize dropping $2k + on wheels for our ride.

smurfslayer thank you for the reality check. I do feel gluttonous considering such an expensive upgrade for what will almost certainly be minimal gains. im definitely fixated on the idea of what a high quality wheel feels like more so than what it will actually accomplish for me. boys and their toys, right?

I really want to move up to wider tires so if ive gotta buy new wheels..... mind as well go the whole way. thats how im justifying this lol

 

[Frogdog1]

It totally depends on what you want from your car. Of course, people can feel their suspensions. Specific wheels, IDK. Unless there is hard competition going on, I would forget it. If money is burning a whole in your pocket, get them. Make sure you understand what forging really does and do you really need it. Do you really understand metallurgy? I do. It's good to know in a few contexts, as in your question. Just another opinion you asked for.

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