Mustang GTD documentary coming Dec. 10th

[Farmer Fran]

that is kind of funny to think about. Of all the amazing cars the United States has produced, many even putting european supercars to shame. the Viper, the Corvette Z06, Corvette ZR1, even Fords own GT. All save for the C7 ZR1 and GT have attempted a factory backed lap record. All have failed to make below a 7 minute lap.

but a fucking Mustang did.

THIS!!! This guy gets it!

FUCK YEAH!

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[Ewheels]

C8 Z06 posted a lap time of 7:10 in the hands of a non pro driver with a lot of safety in the lap.

You think a C8 ZR1 wouldn't be 13 seconds faster on a 20.8 km track with twice the horespower and better transmission and aero ?

It'll be close but honestly, no.
The internet seems to be blown away by the 4-digit horsepower of the ZR1 but power only helps when the wheel is straight and there are *many* turns on this track. In each of those turns, the max speed is limited by grip, not power and the ZR1 has only marginally better grip than the Z06.

The GT3RS has one of the fastest times here and it has comparatively little power but huge aero while the ZR1 has huge power but comparatively little aero. Downforce cars are king here and the ZR1 is not one of them.

 

[9secondko]

It'll be close but honestly, no.
The internet seems to be blown away by the 4-digit horsepower of the ZR1 but power only helps when the wheel is straight and there are *many* turns on this track. In each of those turns, the max speed is limited by grip, not power and the ZR1 has only marginally better grip than the Z06.

The GT3RS has one of the fastest times here and it has comparatively little power but huge aero while the ZR1 has huge power but comparatively little aero. Downforce cars are king here and the ZR1 is not one of them.

I don’t know man. The zr1 is no only more powerful in both horsepower and torque, but it has inherent advantages in its midengine platform that it doesn’t have to add massive expense to resolve. The aero profile cuts through the air better, and they can always offer a downforce package.

the thing with the c8 is the platform itself is great for speed and handling at the core level. You add power and suspension, and it pays off exponentially. In other words, it can do more with less because it has a far greater starting point.

If the zr1 track package doesn’t hit 6:40 or so, I’ll be shocked.

in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it touch the amg one.

the GTD hit sub 7 first. Great. But it hasn’t yet met the goal of beating the gt3 rs. I do believe it has plenty more in it with good weather (and perhaps a different driver). The hardware is there to beat the gt3.

but… the zr1 is such a fundamentally different car, I don’t doubt that it will surprise and possibly hurt some feelings.

hopefully ford does a part 2 of the documentary wil a spring run.

 

[Q6543]

I don’t think the ZR1 will be able to make a complete lap all out.

my money is on it goes into limp mode after 4-5 minutes on track.
I don’t trust a brand new 1K hp Chevy FPC Ferrari copy paste engine.

won’t be surprised if we never see a ring time for the ZR1.

 

[Ewheels]

I don’t know man. The zr1 is no only more powerful in both horsepower and torque, but it has inherent advantages in its midengine platform that it doesn’t have to add massive expense to resolve. The aero profile cuts through the air better, and they can always offer a downforce package.

the thing with the c8 is the platform itself is great for speed and handling at the core level. You add power and suspension, and it pays off exponentially. In other words, it can do more with less because it has a far greater starting point.

If the zr1 track package doesn’t hit 6:40 or so, I’ll be shocked.

in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it touch the amg one.

the GTD hit sub 7 first. Great. But it hasn’t yet met the goal of beating the gt3 rs. I do believe it has plenty more in it with good weather (and perhaps a different driver). The hardware is there to beat the gt3.

but… the zr1 is such a fundamentally different car, I don’t doubt that it will surprise and possibly hurt some feelings.

hopefully ford does a part 2 of the documentary wil a spring run.

I mean, I could be wrong. We're all speculating here. Based off the info that is publicly available, I'm estimating that the ZR1 does not have enough downforce to beat the GTD, let alone the GT3RS.

Good comparison: the Viper ACR.
GTD is likely +300 lbs in weight, similar in aero, and makes an extra 150 hp. Good for 4 seconds per lap vs the Viper.
The ZR1 is +700 lbs and has less aero than the Viper but makes an extra 400 hp. It's hard to say where it would land but I'm guessing somewhere 6:55 - 7:00

 

[agreywolfe]

The ZR1 is at a massive disadvantage in the downforce department. Chevy claims it makes 1200LBs of peak downforce. The GTD is stated to have more than the GT3RS at 150mph.

For reference the GT3RS makes 1895LBs at 150mph.

Another area where the ZR1 lacks that both the GTD and GT3RS have is active aero with DRS which means those cars have both MORE and LESS aero drag than the ZR1 will.

 

[Ewheels]

Ok I did some nerdy college stuff...

So Lift = 1/2 speed squared x air density x surface area x coefficient of lift

ZR1: 1200 lbs at 215 mph
GT3RS: 1900 lbs at 177 mph

Since we know lift and velocity for both cars, we can solve for air density x surface area x coefficient of drag (call it variable "Q") for each car.

ZR1 "Q": 0.012017
GT3RS "Q": 0.028073

Plugging in the respective "Q"s for each car at the GT3RS's average lap speed of 114 mph (12.9 miles / 0.1122 hours) gives:

ZR1: 337 lbs downforce at 114 mph
GT3RS: 788 lbs downforce at 114 mph

So, the GT3RS makes more than double the downforce at any speed and weighs 700 lbs less. I don't think 500 hp is going to get the ZR1 remotely close but we shall see.

 

[broncoboy22]

Finally got to watch! It was great and makes me hype for when they go back

 

[9secondko]

Finally got to watch! It was great and makes me hype for when they go back

definitely seems like a “to be continued” type of thing. I think the car has more than 10 seconds in it.

 

[broncoboy22]

definitely seems like a “to be continued” type of thing. I think the car has more than 10 seconds in it.

Yeah if they can get closer to the GT3 RS time I could see them coming out with another GTD trim later on lol

 

[9secondko]

The ZR1 is at a massive disadvantage in the downforce department. Chevy claims it makes 1200LBs of peak downforce. The GTD is stated to have more than the GT3RS at 150mph.

For reference the GT3RS makes 1895LBs at 150mph.

Another area where the ZR1 lacks that both the GTD and GT3RS have is active aero with DRS which means those cars have both MORE and LESS aero drag than the ZR1 will.

that’s assuming there is no downforce package. And offering one isn’t rocket science.

highly doubtful there is only 1 trim level.

With the GM team gleefully bragging about how the zr1 was developed in-house as a hypercar basically, wouldn’t surprise me v8 at all that they have a “regular” zr1 outgunning the one-off, third party special project GTD AT THE ‘ring in addition to acceleration and speed.

midengine is already a monster advantage. Razor blade aero profile is an advantage. Massive power lead is an advantage. Turbo setup won’t heat soak the engine.

suspension is TBD. But it doesn’t need crazy suspension due to the inherent platform advantage. I doubt they left that stone unturned however.

and all this talk about downforce… it’s not like it’s a difficult thing to add downforce to a trim level.

the deck is stacked in favor of the zr1 on paper. We will see soon enough how it plays out.

I’m guessing we will see a shootout on the ‘ring in the spring. Hey. Thst has a nice RING to it.

the GTD is a muscled up sports car. It needs traction. Warm roads and dry roads. I think we will see some surprising gains in the spring over this 6:57 time.

just watching the footage, the car appeared to be incredibly stable at the points where other cars in its league show some weakness. So I’m thinking it realizes its potential in a few months.

Do I expect it to beat a downforce package zr1? No. I honestly don’t.
But do I expect it to surpass the original gt3 rs target? I kinda do. It’s got the hardware. Just needs the right weather - and perhaps a non-German driver. LOL

 

[agreywolfe]

that’s assuming there is no downforce package. And offering one isn’t rocket science.

highly doubtful there is only 1 trim level.

With the GM team gleefully bragging about how the zr1 was developed in-house as a hypercar basically, wouldn’t surprise me v8 at all that they have a “regular” zr1 outgunning the one-off, third party special project GTD AT THE ‘ring in addition to acceleration and speed.

midengine is already a monster advantage. Razor blade aero profile is an advantage. Massive power lead is an advantage. Turbo setup won’t heat soak the engine.

suspension is TBD. But it doesn’t need crazy suspension due to the inherent platform advantage. I doubt they left that stone unturned however.

and all this talk about downforce… it’s not like it’s a difficult thing to add downforce to a trim level.

the deck is stacked in favor of the zr1 on paper. We will see soon enough how it plays out.

I’m guessing we will see a shootout on the ‘ring in the spring. Hey. Thst has a nice RING to it.

the GTD is a muscled up sports car. It needs traction. Warm roads and dry roads. I think we will see some surprising gains in the spring over this 6:57 time.

just watching the footage, the car appeared to be incredibly stable at the points where other cars in its league show some weakness. So I’m thinking it realizes its potential in a few months.

Do I expect it to beat a downforce package zr1? No. I honestly don’t.
But do I expect it to surpass the original gt3 rs target? I kinda do. It’s got the hardware. Just needs the right weather - and perhaps a non-German driver. LOL

that "1200lbs of downforce" was the quote WITH the optional aero package.

youre putting way too much stock in mid engine vs front vs rear. the fastest non-hybrid mid engine car is still 1.5 seconds slower than the fastest front engine car. the fastest non-AWD mid engine car is the 296GTB thats a second behind the GTD.

also this might be a completely moot argument as Chevy has only done a lap of the ring with the stingray, no E-ray or Z06 laps.

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