Dark Horse poorly received??

[Karguy]

I think you're confusing inflation over the last ~3 years with over the last ~30 years. And we know who to blame for that.

What I tried to say is that WAGES have not kept up with inflation...This is why we see all these unsold cars on dealer lots...Cars are too expensive and people dont have the money to buy them...Or they do crazy 72-84 month loans and are upside down ! Having said that to get back on-top and if someone from Ford reads here to as we all know the new Mustang is basically the old one with some make-up / done by female engineers as one member pointed out here...If you want me to spend $75K on a new Mustang give me a Coyote with a different block that allows bigger bore for to say at least 5.8 liters to stay with the 351 history and a few knobs and buttons so I dont have to touch the screen as its a car and not a I-phone...I Hate dirty screens ! THat way the Coyote finally gets much needed Torque and the screens stay clean and dont need to be constantly wiped down not to look dirty...Not too much to ask for for $ 75 K which feels more like a $50K car...seeing how old it is and the cheapness of materials used and quality definitely not Job 1 looking closer than 9 feet...LOL

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[Karguy]

Daily driving a 350 would be difficult for me as well.

Not difficult at all...Below 4000 it feels like a Honda-Vtec and you just have to get used to the vibration in dashboard & shifter...Still more fun than a C8 because you have a manual...LOL If you say but a C8 is faster zero to 100 get a Tesla that makes the C8 or even Demon 170 feel slower on real pavement at least ! In the end its all about the feel and emotion where the Tesla is just a boring appliance...But the manual gives you that feel and connection between driver & car !

 

[Polo08816]

That's close but new Coyote crate engines are more like 10-11k. Still a whole lot less that that BMW shit.

Are you sure?

https://www.oemfordpart.com/v-2021-ford-mustang--mach-1--5-0l-v8-gas/engine--engine

https://www.oemfordpart.com/oem-par...0YW5nJnk9MjAyMSZ0PW1hY2gtMSZlPTUtMGwtdjgtZ2Fz

I know I'm using the older Mach 1 5.0 Coyote as an example and I would expect the Dark Horse's 5.0 Coyote to be more expensive than the ~$4,100 long block cost for the Mach 1.

 

[Zig]

Are you sure?

https://www.oemfordpart.com/v-2021-ford-mustang--mach-1--5-0l-v8-gas/engine--engine

https://www.oemfordpart.com/oem-par...0YW5nJnk9MjAyMSZ0PW1hY2gtMSZlPTUtMGwtdjgtZ2Fz

I know I'm using the older Mach 1 5.0 Coyote as an example and I would expect the Dark Horse's 5.0 Coyote to be more expensive than the ~$4,100 long block cost for the Mach 1.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-A52XS

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-A50SCB

 

[Polo08816]

Are you sure?

https://www.oemfordpart.com/v-2021-ford-mustang--mach-1--5-0l-v8-gas/engine--engine

https://www.oemfordpart.com/oem-par...0YW5nJnk9MjAyMSZ0PW1hY2gtMSZlPTUtMGwtdjgtZ2Fz

I know I'm using the older Mach 1 5.0 Coyote as an example and I would expect the Dark Horse's 5.0 Coyote to be more expensive than the ~$4,100 long block cost for the Mach 1.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-A52XS

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-A50SCB

I don't think these are the correct replacement crate engines for the 5.0 Coyote in the DH.

The M-6007-A52XS has 9.5:1 compression ratio for supercharged applications (nominal) and I'm willing to be DH has much higher compression.

The M-6007-A50SCB is a 5.2L V8 so it's also not a replacement engine for the 5.0 Coyote in the DH.

Unless someone has the part number for the actual long block in the DH, I'm going to go by the 5.0 Coyote in the Mach 1 as the closest variant.

 

[Zig]

I don't think these are the correct replacement crate engines for the 5.0 Coyote in the DH.

The M-6007-A52XS has 9.5:1 compression ratio for supercharged applications (nominal) and I'm willing to be DH has much higher compression.

The M-6007-A50SCB is a 5.2L V8 so it's also not a replacement engine for the 5.0 Coyote in the DH.

Unless someone has the part number for the actual long block in the DH, I'm going to go by the 5.0 Coyote in the Mach 1 as the closest variant.

Point being a tad more than 4k

 

[Mustang406]

Not difficult at all...Below 4000 it feels like a Honda-Vtec and you just have to get used to the vibration in dashboard & shifter...Still more fun than a C8 because you have a manual...LOL If you say but a C8 is faster zero to 100 get a Tesla that makes the C8 or even Demon 170 feel slower on real pavement at least ! In the end its all about the feel and emotion where the Tesla is just a boring appliance...But the manual gives you that feel and connection between driver & car !

Daily driving a GT 350 would be difficult for me for other reasons. Absolutely can't drive it (or the C8) at all from Nov-April since I live where there is snow. And I'm not putting snow tires on a car like that. I have 2 other vehicles with snow tires.

I have not driven a GT 350 so I don't know what the vibrations or anything else is like. I just don't like driving performance cars on shit roads when it is -25 and I have no ground clearance.

Also if I had to park in a parking lot with a bunch of assholes that would be a major deterent to Daily driving as well.

 

[Polo08816]

I'm in agreement with this.



Cars that enthusiasts run at the track/HDPE are rarely stock. Most of the avid HPDE folks are going to use a tire that is better for endurance/lapping like a Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 than a super-stick Trofeo RS tire that only lasts 1 weekend. They are also likely to upgrade to track oriented brake pads very quickly as well.


With that being said, I'm impressed by the DH with HP and Recaros. I like that the catastrophic mechanical failure costs aren't as high as a G87 M2. Blow up your 5.0 Coyote... $6-7k... just "add to cart" versus $35-40k for a new S58 + turbos.

I think where Ford missed the mark is simply the entry cost. The DH Premium with HP and Recaros need to be sub $60k to undercut the G87 M2.

Are you sure?

https://www.oemfordpart.com/v-2021-ford-mustang--mach-1--5-0l-v8-gas/engine--engine

https://www.oemfordpart.com/oem-par...0YW5nJnk9MjAyMSZ0PW1hY2gtMSZlPTUtMGwtdjgtZ2Fz

I know I'm using the older Mach 1 5.0 Coyote as an example and I would expect the Dark Horse's 5.0 Coyote to be more expensive than the ~$4,100 long block cost for the Mach 1.

Point being a tad more than 4k

I believe my comments were consistent with expecting it to be a bit more than $4k - maybe $6-8k.

https://www.oemfordpart.com/oem-par...wJnk9MjAyMiZ0PXBsYXRpbnVtJmU9NS0wbC12OC1mbGV4

It's about $5.5k for the F150.

 

[Rocket Man]

Are you sure?

Pretty sure. 10k here
https://www.levittownfordparts.com/sku/m-6007-m50cauto.html

 

[Rocket Man]

And here

https://www.jegs.com/i/Ford+Perform...kFuLW0-6ZFnTxk9U_Kj6pXkNefWlJHi3CvaV_mpJQbHz8

 

[Polo08816]

I believe my comments were consistent with expecting it to be a bit more than $4k - maybe $6-8k.

https://www.oemfordpart.com/oem-par...wJnk9MjAyMiZ0PXBsYXRpbnVtJmU9NS0wbC12OC1mbGV4

It's about $5.5k for the F150.

Pretty sure. 10k here
https://www.levittownfordparts.com/sku/m-6007-m50cauto.html

And here

https://www.jegs.com/i/Ford+Perform...kFuLW0-6ZFnTxk9U_Kj6pXkNefWlJHi3CvaV_mpJQbHz8

My understanding of long blocks vs. crate engines is you're more likely to use a crate engine if you're doing a custom build but if you're just replacing an engine in a vehicle, you're more likely to use a long block.

Here are what are the main differences between a long block and crate engine, in my opinion:

https://accessories.ford.com/2018-20-mustang-5-0l-coyote-460hp-mustang-long-block

This long block assembly DOES NOT include:

• Intake manifold/throttle body
• Fuel rails/fuel injectors
• Water pump pulley
• Alternator
• Exhaust manifolds
• Flywheel/flexplate
• Engine wiring/PCM

You're likely to have all those components from your original engine for an engine replacement.

 

[roadpilot]

What I tried to say is that WAGES have not kept up with inflation...This is why we see all these unsold cars on dealer lots...Cars are too expensive and people dont have the money to buy them...

A number of posts back, I provided a comparison between wages in 1991 and today as well as the price of a Mustang in 1991 and today. Wages have kept up with the cost of a Mustang during that time period almost to a tee. Today's base Mustang GT is no more than the 1991 Mustang GT, corrected for inflation on both ends.

... as we all know the new Mustang is basically the old one with some make-up / done by female engineers as one member pointed out here...

Negative. Other than you, nobody has ever said it is "basically the same old one with some make-up". And the reference to the female engineer has nothing to do with this, as she was only in charge of the roll-out, not the design. Did you not read that correctly?

If you want me to spend $75K on a new Mustang give me a Coyote with a different block that allows bigger bore for to say at least 5.8 liters to stay with the 351 history and a few knobs and buttons so I dont have to touch the screen as its a car and not a I-phone...I Hate dirty screens ! THat way the Coyote finally gets much needed Torque and the screens stay clean and dont need to be constantly wiped down not to look dirty...Not too much to ask for for $ 75 K which feels more like a $50K car...seeing how old it is and the cheapness of materials used and quality definitely not Job 1 looking closer than 9 feet...LOL

Broken record here. You're not getting 2x the car for the same (or less) price, bro. That's not the way anything works.

 

[Mustang406]

A number of posts back, I provided a comparison between wages in 1991 and today as well as the price of a Mustang in 1991 and today. Wages have kept up with the cost of a Mustang during that time period almost to a tee. Today's base Mustang GT is no more than the 1991 Mustang GT, corrected for inflation on both ends.

Negative. Other than you, nobody has ever said it is "basically the same old one with some make-up". And the reference to the female engineer has nothing to do with this, as she was only in charge of the roll-out, not the design. Did you not read that correctly?

Broken record here. You're not getting 2x the car for the same (or less) price, bro. That's not the way anything works.

In 1993 a base GT was 15,747 dollars. Adjusted for inflation today that would be 33,818 dollars for a base GT. A base GT is 43,090 dollars. So Mustangs have increased in price 25% more than inflation. Mustang was once a performance bargain. It is not so much a bargain anymore.

 

[Rocket Man]

You're likely to have all those components from your original engine for an engine replacement.

The average owner (who is not a mechanic) is not going to pull his engine, swap over all the parts onto a long block, and re-install the engine. Therefore it would be quicker, cheaper and easier to replace with a crate engine, then maybe sell some of the remaining components.

 

[roadpilot]

In 1993 a base GT was 15,747 dollars. Adjusted for inflation today that would be 33,818 dollars for a base GT. A base GT is 43,090 dollars. So Mustangs have increased in price 25% more than inflation. Mustang was once a performance bargain. It is not so much a bargain anymore.

My post (since you didn't seem to want to scroll back):

A 1991 base GT 5.0 hatchback was ~$13K when I bought it new.
That would be ~$30K in 2024 dollars.
A 2024 Mustang GT Fastback starts at $41,960.
That's right about a 40% increase.

US average annual individual income in 1991 was $22,158.
That's $49,638 in 2023 dollars (most recent available data).
In 2023, it was $69,029.61.
That's right about a 40% increase.

Math is your friend.

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