2024 mustang the problem with expectations

[9secondko]

We can all dream but Ford wont bring out a really new Mustang in a year or two after they just brought the all new for 2024 refreshed S550 called S650…The platform is what it is not a sportscar like alpha where front does not understeer and rear does not oversteer or even rotate into turns which the alpha did not either…Aluminum body to reduce weight is part of the F150 but a pipe dream for the Mustang so here no realistic changes either…What I see is what Ford could do to generate some excitement and make it worth the price they are asking is increase the engine bore by 10 mm which would necessitate a new block that would also be appreciated by F150 buyers who prefer V8 sound over V6 baritone as also more reliability because no turbos can go bad and bring much needed TORQUE to make the whole experience more fun…Also a few buttons would be great so you dont have to touch the screens and look at fingerprints and of course better quality would be a win/win for customer and manufacturer…!We’ll see what the future brings but its sad the so much money was wasted on Mach-E & Lightning…But GM & Stellantis wasted even more on the “electric future”…LOL

why not? In spite of the “all new” marketing snd s65 designation, it’s really just an s550 refresh and those only last a few years as it is.

But no one is expecting Ford to abandon s650 despite its tepid reception.

what we are hoping for is thst ford is using this borrowed time snd past 20 years of saving platform money to prep a truly capable new platform that sets the amustang up for success from the ground up at the fundamental level and offers the engines, thr suspension, and the design to maximize that potential.

so much of what ford has tried is good. The engines, the transmissions, the branding, the digital focus on the BMWesque interior, etc. but it’s all sandbagged by a 20 year old platform that was never designed to handle all that well, bubble gum and duct tape engineering add-one notwithstanding. A rigid, lightweight platform with geometry designed from the ground up to be the next generation performer would be a great start. Invest in thst snd the returns on everything else from engine power (whether electric, hybrid, or ICE) to suspension tweaking will yield much greater returns on investment. Keep the convenience factors and don’t offer too many different models, charging an arm and a leg for every upgrade. We don’t need a dark horse or Mach 1. Make all the GTs thst level and the economy of scale will keep it affordable.

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[YamenGT650]

I don’t think you’ll see any “All New” mustang before 2028-29 if not more.

Am not looking forward to that, I have feeling this is the last mustang generation with a N/A pure V8 Engine. It will only go down from here.

 

[GripTime]

https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/th...problem-with-expectations.160789/post-3268329

If I am reading your post correctly, this is the car that you want and state that sales will be strong.

Dark Horse and Mach 1 should be the GT and start at $46,480. Then over that a new GT350 and/or GT500 with a brand new chassis that isn't 20 years old and should be under 100K (They DH and Mach 1 which will be the GT would also have this chassis). Scrap the screens and either bring back the S550 interior or develop a brand new interior. Then at minimum redesign the grill but would prefer a totally new exterior. The GT should out perform the 2016 Camaro.

I would absolutely buy that car for that price and I suspect a lot other people would too.

 

[Karguy]

All new platform is a must but wont happen now so screens you dont have to touch because it is a car and not a phone with dirty screen as also a new block with more bore to give the Coyote much needed Torque for F150 & Mustang should be stop gap measures to keep the product viable until a lighter and better handling car and really new generation arrives also capable of being AWD and maybe even 4 door to copy the 16 year long Charger/Challenger sales success…!You can surely hope and by then when people see electric was not the future or a solution for a problem that never existed ( CO2 Hoax to enrich the chosen Few) maybe Dodge , Chevy , BMW , AMG , Audi will join the party with n/a V8 and manual transmission and the competition will give us customers exiting fun to drive and affordable products instead of this government mandated EV crap nobody wants….! Except for Uncle Joe who will power up his house with a F150 Lightning when electricity is not available or too expensive to run the A/C or washing machine while saving the climate… V8s are the past and the Future !

 

[Marty1000]

Yeah…no. And you know it. But I guess that’s your gig.

Your “point” is the same thing as saying a Ferrari model doesn’t have mustang sales, even if it’s a great- selling farrari, so it must not be as good right? Derp. Derp. It’s a niche car. So the niche car has niche sales. But the niche car selling well for its category and tremendously upping the performance that it’s known for? Resounding success. But the mustang, having the same performance as a 12 year old version and seeing sales take a nosedive from their traditional numbers (even at launch when they are high from pent up demand) is quite sad. For the umpteenth time.

it’s like explaining the simplicity of 2+2=4…. But to a 2 month old infant. LOL

You have no point, so you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over hoping to somehow change the result.

Definition of insanity. Look it up

hey, have fun with that.

like most on this forum, the mustang is my favorite nameplate of any car in history. I WANT it to be great for its time. However, I’m also a realist and honest about where things are. It’s just not great right now. It’s actually a bit disappointing in the aforementioned respects. And it would appear the buying public is in agreement. Mustangs sales have dropped a whopping 17% compared to the same time last year.

here’s hoping Ford sees what everyone else sees and makes the car compelling in future generations (far beyond the obvious upcoming high end editions of this gen) and sets the standard as they have done in past iterations. No more excuses. Time to invest in the platform and push the pedal to the metal. No more “magic in the air” pixie dust nostalgia talk. We want real, tangible, measurable success.

to quote and oldie but goodie - “build it and they will come.”

Great article here:

https://autos.yahoo.com/chevrolet-corvette-c8-surpasses-camaro-160052176.html

If the Mustang is not as great then why is it #1 global sports car seller? Ford limit Australia to get only ~1K DH cars. They could easily sell 3x times as many down under. The FlatRock outputs on average 4K to 7K cars per month. The foreign brands are lucky if they sell that many cars per year. The Mustang is an amazing value for the dollar and has plenty of upgrade aftermarket parts and large fan base globally. In addition the repair parts are much cheaper and so is the car insurance to get it on the road. BTW- Ford could make more money if they took the limit out of DH production and supplied dealers with base models of it.

 

[YamenGT650]

If the Mustang is not as great then why is it #1 global sports car seller? Ford limit Australia to get only ~1K DH cars. They could easily sell 3x times as many down under. The FlatRock outputs on average 4K to 7K cars per month. The foreign brands are lucky if they sell that many cars per year. The Mustang is an amazing value for the dollar and has plenty of upgrade aftermarket parts and large fan base globally. In addition the repair parts are much cheaper and so is the car insurance to get it on the road. BTW- Ford could make more money if they took the limit out of DH production and supplied dealers with base models of it.

Well said.

 

[Zig]

Would an all new chassis require even newer parts and suppliers? If you think getting a new spoiler is tough now?

 

[9secondko]

If the Mustang is not as great then why is it #1 global sports car seller? Ford limit Australia to get only ~1K DH cars. They could easily sell 3x times as many down under. The FlatRock outputs on average 4K to 7K cars per month. The foreign brands are lucky if they sell that many cars per year. The Mustang is an amazing value for the dollar and has plenty of upgrade aftermarket parts and large fan base globally. In addition the repair parts are much cheaper and so is the car insurance to get it on the road. BTW- Ford could make more money if they took the limit out of DH production and supplied dealers with base models of it.

I’ve already stated why the Mustang sells more than other sports cars. Now with no Camaro and the dodge twins having no real future, it’s cake.

But let’s compare apples to apples

if we look at just March 2015 and compare to March 2024, we see sales of 12,663. And then in April, it sold 13,144. Now in 2024, we see the new mustang sold 5,821. Yikes. And we will see what this month does. But it’s not looking rosy. More than a 50% drop for the post-launch spring season. And the Januaryvand February 2024 numbers are the worst since 2009, when the anemic mustang was dying - only to get a kick in the pants by the arrival of a new Camaro. It’s sad to watch history repeat itself and Ford sit on its butt when the traditional competition/motivation isn’t there. About as sad as watching a decade old Camaro as whoop a 2024 Mustang GT.

Ford knows these numbers and analyses exactly this kind of data. It’s not a pretty picture.

and the reason why is that the new car is basically the same as the old one. People are tired of paying more for the same old thing.

the Mustang once generated enough volume to be profitable on smaller margins and that made it a great ba g for the buck. You got a whole lot of fun for not too much money. But ford knew they didn’t invest much into the new car, that it performed nearly on par with a 2016 Camaro, and that it wasn’t compelling. So they needed to pad profit margins and make it more expensive, because the volume wasn’t going to be there.

but that can be resolved with a new car that trounces old performance metrics, looks like it was made in the current era, and isn’t priced out. Looking forward to seeing Ford Make The Mustang Great Again.

 

[GripTime]

Go look at overall car sales and stop citing figures with no context. Your analysis is just oversimplified and wrong. There was a worldwide pandemic in 2020.

 

[Marty1000]

We forget that Doge in 2006 introduced the Challenger Concept to go after the Mustang sales. (Picture from R&T magazine attached). Since that time they made many dollars by using the same old platform until 2023. Maybe in 2015 Ford decided to follow Dodge design approach by not creating totally new platform for the vehicle and that is OK.! We should be all be grateful to Ford for keeping the V8 powertrain and the 6speed stick that makes this car so much fun.

 

[BreadBurner]

it’s called pandering.

they basically made the GT… but thought they could sell for more by calling it dark horse. They couldn’t get away with calling it a Shelby or a a boss. So this had to do. Then they kept the badger GT at bullitt levels. It’s crazy. 500 hp is s lot. It should be performing better. But it’s not. That’s just wrong.

when someone is offering a product they know isn’t up to snuff, you usually get a lot of paint options, sticker packages, cool badges, interior options, wheel choices, etc. these days, digital fisher clusters fit in with that. You hear a lot about things that don’t really matter.

but when there is serious confidence, things are quieter. You hear a few mentions of how killer the product is, then let the item sell itself with reviews, measurable data, etc. when the gt500 launched in 2020, Ford knew it was killer. It looked great, had insane power, s DCT to UTILIZE THE POWER, and we didn’t hear so much about stickers etc. it was all “venom kills demons” with a smirk.

we knew we were in trouble with disingenuous statements preceding s650 such as an electric suv “saving the mustang” (as if the f150 wasn’t doing that slready) and hoe there was “Magic in the air,” “poster car,” etc.

Ford has given us a loooooooooooong stretch of saving money and doing the minimum with the mustang. The 2005 car went a long time with anemic engines, then finally got special after the Camaro relaunched. Then got a new body, interior and IRS and now it’s barely any different then the 2015 car. They’ve saved enough, stretch the D2C platform as far as it can stretch. The bubble gum snd duct tape are showing.

what is this "magic in the" air quote that people keep on referencing to? I have never heard it apart from this forum so far.

 

[9secondko]

Go look at overall car sales and stop citing figures with no context. Your analysis is just oversimplified and wrong. There was a worldwide pandemic in 2020.

LOL

That would make sense if we are talking about some downturn in 2020 or 2021. But it’s 2024. And even pamdemic salrs were better.

The s550 Mustangs launch sales were strong. Healthy. But they waned as per usual in the twilight years.

yet even the post-pandemic twilight sales were stronger than the s650.

but we are talking launch. And s550 selling over double than s650 means something is wrong with the new mustang. Sure, it’s a fine car. But it’s an old car masquerading as a new one, with new car pricing.

and people are done being suckered.

 

[GripTime]

LOL

That would make sense if we are talking about some downturn in 2020 or 2021. But it’s 2024. And even pamdemic salrs were better.

The s550 Mustangs launch sales were strong. Healthy. But they wanted as per usual in the twilight years.

yet even the post-pandemic twilight sales were stronger than the s650.

but we are talking launch. And s550 selling over double than s650 means something is wrong with the new mustang. Sure, it’s a fine car. But it’s an old car masquerading as a new one, with new car pricing.

and people are done being suckered.

I understand you aren't happy with Ford. I understand you think the S650 is not a new car. But the narrative your are trying to draw is false and at best misleading. Your narrative is the car is a dud, other people think it's a dud because sales are down. But any quick research will tell you all sales are down, not just a little, but drastically. All prices are up, not just a little but drastically. Now, the car may still be a dud but stop trying to act like the market agrees with you based on sales. 2023 sales have not rebounded that much and 2023 prices are still high. If you are expecting sales to rebound from 2020 to 2024 back to a 2015 level after a drastic and emotional plummet you don't understand the economy.

 

[9secondko]

I understand you aren't happy with Ford. I understand you think the S650 is not a new car. But the narrative your are trying to draw is false and at best misleading. Your narrative is the car is a dud, other people think it's a dud because sales are down. But any quick research will tell you all sales are down, not just a little, but drastically. All prices are up, not just a little but drastically. Now, the car may still be a dud but stop trying to act like the market agrees with you based on sales. 2023 sales have not rebounded that much and 2023 prices are still high. If you are expecting sales to rebound from 2020 to 2024 back to a 2015 level after a drastic and emotional plummet you don't understand the economy.

LOL

Exactly why I gave the vette example earlier. No wonder it bothered you so much.

and it’s not that I don’t THINK the s650 isn’t an all new car, it ACTUALLY FACTUALLY ISNT an all new car. That was a lie.

 

[GripTime]

LOL

Exactly why I gave the vette example earlier. No wonder it bothered you so much.

and it’s not that I don’t THINK the s650 isn’t an all new car, it ACTUALLY ISNT an all new car. That was a lie.

I gave you an opportunity to quote what Mustang you wanted. You just reposted an old rant. You can't quote price specs or performance of what you want. We all want awesome cars but to keep beating your stick of pie in the sky performance for $55,000 means you are bothered. Sure the Vette is a good comparison but that C8 is awesome. But just because the C8 is awesome doesn't mean the Mustang is bad. Bottom line you are not debating you are just citing stuff to fit your narrative almost like another BOT on here. Well, go ahead and continue, I am going for a drive.

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