Gasoline Prices

[robvas]

It's down twenty cents here.

4.09 for premium

Sponsored

 

[Frogdog1]

This issue brings up an evidential question: Why is California closing refineries?

The State of California forced two refiners to close down due to increased state regulatory costs. When a refiner can't cover their costs, this is what happens. Californians will be paying even more for gasoline soon, in a state that has large oil reserves. That's what they voted for.

Oil is a commodity, not so much a product. There is speculation as with any commodity. From the early 1920's, people have said we have "five more years of oil left in the country", each year. Well, due to technology and just plain work, each year, more reserves are discovered on land and in the Gulf of Mexico, Gulf of America, whatever it is now. Also, the U.S. Government has been banning drilling on federal lands for quite some time as the environmentalists have to have their say so on everything real or imagined.

Oil and gas is underground and more is discovered each year, not less and through technology, more of the reserves are being produced. There are just a lot of man made barriers to producing oil and gas along with the ever present supply and demand force. The history of oil and gas production is not a good predictor of future production.

 

[Wiley Marmot]

For a hot minute; 93 did dip below $4.00 to like $3.97 at my local Meijer recently. Been fluctuating between $4.20ish and $4.40ish for a while. Not one station in the area (that I'm aware of) is pay after pumping anymore; they're all pay in advance, or via credit/debit card, and I think some may accept one or more of those new fangled smart phone payment methods,

Refineries; refining capacity, and pump prices. Yea; still a bit of a sore spot around here. When my family and I moved here in early '90 we immediately noticed (on average) about a .20 cents a gal higher pump price then where we'd been living in Ionia County to our SW.

DESPITE there being a refinery on the eastern outskirts of our village. Yea; I know; just because there's a refinery in town doesn't mean they sell finished product locally. Still though.............

'97-'98ish the refinery sold to a different corporation; who'd talked all kinds of positive marketing spin/feel good **** to the local business community, village council, and State Government.

Then....................(per a 2005 article linked below) "The Alma refinery, which pumped 55,000 barrels of crude oil a day, was closed in November 1999 and demolished in 2003 by its owner, Ultramar Diamond Shamrock (UDS) of San Antonio, because the company didn’t believe it would ever be profitable enough again to keep open."

Putting 300 locals out of work, and the local economy into a tail spin it still (2025) hasn't fully recovered from.

Frosting on the **** cake?

"The man responsible for cleaning up the area is Rick Draper, ...." "

Alma, he said, “was always a profitable plant. There were some years it was marginal, but it was not a plant that wasn’t making money.”

https://www.redorbit.com/news/science/321790/alma_feels_loss_of_refinery/

Bet those rascals got a REAL NICE tax write off at our, and the country at large's expense.

 

[rapidred7G]

If you price a gallon of gasoline in ounces of gold, it is at historical lows. So yes, inflation adjusted it is low. This is why the rig count is going down since last year.

 

[Frogdog1]

The rig count is down due to simple economics. Oil and gas drilling is no different than making and selling cakes. If it costs more to drill and produce it than the operator can sell the oil and gas for, drilling doesn't take place. The rig count nose-dived in January of 2015.

 

[Bear376]

Probably not the time to mention that I am paying less than $3.00/gal right now. Henry Ford was big on the farmers, so he made the Model T able to run on moonshine, when Rockefeller found out, he got legislation passed opposing it and invested heavily in the suffrage and temperance movements.

Anyone who expects anything different from the movement to electrical is delusional.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

Has anyone seen gasoline prices go down in their area since January?

I have, but only a tiny bit. Yesterday, I paid $3.42 for Top Tier premium which is at my normal place to fill up my personal cars.

I am a little disappointed in this. I remember when I paid $1.87 for regular beginning shortly after 2016 rolled around when drilling took a leap.

I just checked the "Baker Hughes" U.S. rig count (actively drilling rigs) and it is only 539 rigs in the upper 48 as of today. That has been the most used indicator of drilling activity taking place in the U.S. or not taking place. For reference, I was over the operations of a large oil and gas drilling contractor at a young age, in the early 1980's when the rig count briefly hit 4,400 actively drilling rigs. I had a feeling, based on gasoline prices, that "Drill Baby Drill" wasn't taking place and it isn't. Yes, active rigs drilling at one time was in the thousands in the upper 48.

So, one question is why isn't drilling going on (and why are prices not down-er)? My family, one way or another, since I was born has been fed by the upstream oil and gas industry. Simply put, it is a number of things like, supply and demand, availability of the right quality of crude for American refining, and countless other things. My feelings are that demand is up, as it usually is this time of year, and summer gas costs more than winter gas. From there, it gets very complicated.

Main question: have your gasoline prices gone down and what are you paying at the pump? Keep politics out of this, please, because that isn't affecting prices right now.

Well, I won't be PARTIZAN but energy production is definitely very political. If you were in the industry, you know that even if all regulations went away, it take time to get investors and money, procure equipment and develop sites before you can pump that oil, right? So it takes a while for things to spin up, especially if they've been choked down for a while. Right now, we don't have the refining capacity we need. That will take time. Also, just look at the amount of oil investment money over the past 20 year. Been plummeting like a rock. Less money means less activity.

 

[Frogdog1]

Anyone who expects anything different from the movement to electrical is delusional.

Yeah, everytime I see a Tesla, I almost have to laugh. I guess they have their place for a few people but the economics of electric cars doesn't work out, if all of the costs are taken into consideration.

Anyway, not to derail my own thread, it looks like gasoline pricing is stable and California is taking its' ever present state price hit on fuel.....also. I think it will go down a few cents after Labor Day, just not enough for me. Whatever, I will continue to "Mustang on". They aren't economy cars but mine is surprisingly good considering what's under the hood.

 

[Frogdog1]

Well, I won't be PARTIZAN but energy production is definitely very political. If you were in the industry, you know that even if all regulations went away, it take time to get investors and money, procure equipment and develop sites before you can pump that oil, right? So it takes a while for things to spin up, especially if they've been choked down for a while. Right now, we don't have the refining capacity we need. That will take time. Also, just look at the amount of oil investment money over the past 20 year. Been plummeting like a rock. Less money means less activity.

Well, just fyi, I AM in the upstream part of the industry, have been since 17 y.o., and you haven't told me anything I don't know, which is all good. As the economics improve, investment money comes quick. I managed the 15,000' rated rig below along with 18 others at a very young age. It's a family affair.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

Well, just fyi, I AM in the upstream part of the industry, have been since 17 y.o., and you haven't told me anything I don't know, which is all good. As the economics improve, investment money comes quick. I managed the 15,000' rated rig below along with 18 others at a very young age. It's a family affair.

Cool! Interesting career for sure! So, I've seen things showing a drastic reduction in the amount of investment $$ being allocated to petroleum by investors. Is that something you've see as well, or is it slanted BS of some kind?

 

[Bikeman315]

Yeah, everytime I see a Tesla, I almost have to laugh. I guess they have their place for a few people but the economics of electric cars doesn't work out, if all of the costs are taken into consideration.

A “few” people? Tesla sold 1.8 million cars last year. You may not like them but EV’s are not going anywhere.

 

[Sinthor 5.56]

A “few” people? Tesla sold 1.8 million cars last year. You may not like them but EV’s are not going anywhere.

Meh... I don't think EV's will actually take over from ICE cars until they go with hydrogen or something else. Toyota and BMW already have hydrogen cars. Can fill a tank in minutes...but of course, we need the filling stations. Other options too of course, but I think the current EV's with their massive, heavy and toxic batteries that cost you almost as much as the whole car, when you have to replace them, are more of a stepping stool to what EV's really will be. Petroleum industry still won't go anywhere as we use it for so many other things, but I do think that once EV's get to that kind of technology that they will be the way it goes.

 

[erocker]

This issue brings up an evidential question: Why is California closing refineries?

I'm not sure how or why people are confusing a State/government with the oil industry?

 

[Bikeman315]

Meh... I don't think EV's will actually take over from ICE cars until they go with hydrogen or something else. Toyota and BMW already have hydrogen cars. Can fill a tank in minutes...but of course, we need the filling stations. Other options too of course, but I think the current EV's with their massive, heavy and toxic batteries that cost you almost as much as the whole car, when you have to replace them, are more of a stepping stool to what EV's really will be. Petroleum industry still won't go anywhere as we use it for so many other things, but I do think that once EV's get to that kind of technology that they will be the way it goes.

I certainly hope other options make themselves available. Variety is the spice of life. But the days of 10 minute charging and 500 mile range are not that far away.

 

[Bikeman315]

I'm not sure how or why people are confusing a State/government with the oil industry?

Because that is what they are told by people who want you to believe in a certain way.

Sponsored