2024 mustang the problem with expectations

[agreywolfe]

I never said it was a failure it’s kinda of a disappointment from a sales/ aftermarket perspective. It’s an interesting topic to talk about because ford has had this problem before with the 94s, 96”was real bad” and 2015s, it’ll all depend on long term support plus pricing incentives

i wouldnt even call it a disappointment sales/aftermarket. aftermarket wise thats just rose tinted glasses for the peak of S550 modding, S650 is still new and in its first year of sales and theres already a lot of companies with appearance stuff for the car (see my PFP), small companies like NYTOP and 777 already have some parts available, Steedas already got the GT500 wing updated for the S650, Lethal already has carbon fiber parts, Feral and ZL1 have ground effects, Anderson already has two carbon hoods, a carbon roof, and is supplying the parts for the FP800 in both matte and gloss carbon. some of the big names havent hit yet like cervinis, sure, but the S650 is already off to a great start. Im not going to cover performance mods because, as many complain about, (if it aint broke, dont fix it) a vast majority of performance parts from the S550 also work for the S650 and the Gen 4 coyote has already proven more receptive to boost with Whipple's 800WHP kits

Sales wise numbers may be down, but that didnt stop the Mustang from outselling all of its competition last year even with the "Dodge kitchen sink edition last call challenger/charger hell cat demon ft knuckles and Dante from Devil may Cry: ultimate delux edition 2.0 and bonus DLC" push they made for the sendoff of the Hemi. Ford said they are targeting their competition as the Corvette, and sales wise, they are blowing Corvette out of the water. numbers may be down but if Ford is still able to turn a profit on the car, they still dominate the segment theyve dominated for the past decade.

Much like 2014 when S197 enjoyers were complaining about the S550, i think the S650 hate/disappointment is just a fad and the 650 will continue on just fine for the next few years until the inevitable mid gen refresh.

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[Zengineer]

lol ya mean like how ford classifies it as a sports car to brag yeah okay

So what exactly class of car do you put RWD V8 2 door cars in? Nobody is calling it a supercar or a GT3 beater...of course it's a sports car and it isn't Ford that decides.

 

[Zig]

So what exactly class of car do you put RWD V8 2 door cars in? Nobody is calling it a supermarket or a GT3 beater...of course it's a sports car and it isn't Ford that decides.

Some of them old time boats was two doors

 

[Zengineer]

Some of them old time boats was two doors

Yes, and I get that purists will say the Mustang..and the 911 for that matter...are not sports cars. But it's such a stupid and pedantic argument. The term, right or wrong, is used to describe almost any relatively low slung, remotely performance oriented car today.

 

[9secondko]

This post would make sense if the Corvette was selling more than Mustang, but mustangs are selling 2x more than Corvette.

If your post was just about performance, then that's one thing, but you mentioned sales and how the public has awoken judging by the sales of the mustang. It's still the number one seller.

So I wouldnt say the 5k mustangs sold this month means ford did something wrong, because that means Corvette did something wrong as well because they sold 3k. So I'd say keep the convo performance oriented if you like the Corvette, don't bring sales into it lol

your response would make sense of the subject were sales equivalency of apples and oranges.

2-seat vehicles traditionally sell much less than 2+2 or 4 seat vehicles, so that wasn’t it. Strike one.

I actually fully qualified my little opinion by comparing the vette with its previous iterations. Strike two.

The comparison isn’t the sales figures of two different cars. It’s comparing what each company has done (or not done) to make the car more compelling (or not) than it had previously been. Strike… well…you know.

you know, if we’re actually making sense in our responses and all.

the new mustang is simply not compelling due to its last gen nature as representated in style, performance, and engineering, so buyers are not so ready to pay new gen prices for it. And that’s been showing in sales figures since it launched.

 

[Mustang1987]

your response would make sense of the subject were sales equivalency of apples and oranges.

2-seat vehicles traditionally sell much less than 2+2 or 4 seat vehicles, so that wasn’t it. Strike one.

I actually fully qualified my little opinion by comparing the vette with its previous iterations. Strike two.

The comparison isn’t the sales figures of two different cars. It’s comparing what each company has done (or not done) to make the car more compelling (or not) than it had previously been. Strike… well…you know.

you know, if we’re actually making sense in our responses and all.

the new mustang is simply not compelling due to its last gen nature as representated in style, performance, and engineering, so buyers are not so ready to pay new gen prices for it. And that’s been showing in sales figures since it launched.

Either sales matter in your argument or performance matters. If sales matter, mustang is king and number one. If its performance, then yes, Corvette performs better but costs twice as much base. You seem upset that they didn't make Corvette performance for $40k.

 

[topdawg4ever]

I’d say it’s way too soon to call the 650 or DH or failure. I’m sure, price and Interest rates are hurting sales. Price is a result of inflation. This isn’t 2019 anymore. Everything is off the charts more expensive. Interest rates are a result of knee jerk reactions to COVID and the injection of way too much money into the economy.

Dodge has a mountain of their “last call” challengers sitting on lots. That’s a ‘23 model that is an over hyped 15 year old design.
Having owned my share of challengers over the years, and having just drove a Mopar Edition Scat Pack Challenger last month, I can tell you the Dark Horse is a refreshing and fun overall experience.

In the end there are lighter, heavier, cheaper, and more expensive cars. Enjoy what will make you happy.

 

[9secondko]

Either sales matter in your argument or performance matters. If sales matter, mustang is king and number one. If its performance, then yes, Corvette performs better but costs twice as much base. You seem upset that they didn't make Corvette performance for $40k.

Nonsense. Of course both matter, but not In comparison with each other. Apples and oranges. as the Vette has always been a niche/halo car, its sales will never be Mustang sales. But “for a Vette,” the c8 is healthy. And in terms of performance, which matters much to these cars and their buyers, the Vette knocked it out of the park.

pretty good article here:
https://autos.yahoo.com/chevrolet-corvette-c8-surpasses-camaro-160052176.html

 

[Mustang1987]

Nonsense. Of course both matter, but not In comparison with each other. Apples and oranges. as the Vette has always been a niche/halo car, its sales will never be Mustang sales. But “for a Vette,” the c8 is healthy. And in terms of performance, which matters much to these cars and their buyers, the Vette knocked it out of the park.

pretty good article here:
https://autos.yahoo.com/chevrolet-corvette-c8-surpasses-camaro-160052176.html

You say the Corvette's sales will never be Mustang sales because the Mustang sells so much lol That's the only reason why. The Corvette sold more than the Camaro, and Camaro wasn't a niche car. The Corvette is is beating a lot of performance cars in sales, except the Mustang.

And of course Ford can't make a car with a base of $30k around the same performance as a car with a base of $70k. Not far off though with the upgrades.

 

[NegativeMultiplier]

the "Dodge kitchen sink edition last call challenger/charger hell cat demon ft knuckles and Dante from Devil may Cry: ultimate delux edition 2.0 and bonus DLC"

This is one of the reasons I joined this forum.

 

[9secondko]

You say the Corvette's sales will never be Mustang sales because the Mustang sells so much lol That's the only reason why. The Corvette sold more than the Camaro, and Camaro wasn't a niche car. The Corvette is is beating a lot of performance cars in sales, except the Mustang.

And of course Ford can't make a car with a base of $30k around the same performance as a car with a base of $70k. Not far off though with the upgrades.

Yeah…no. And you know it. But I guess that’s your gig.

Your “point” is the same thing as saying a Ferrari model doesn’t have mustang sales, even if it’s a great- selling farrari, so it must not be as good right? Derp. Derp. It’s a niche car. So the niche car has niche sales. But the niche car selling well for its category and tremendously upping the performance that it’s known for? Resounding success. But the mustang, having the same performance as a 12 year old version and seeing sales take a nosedive from their traditional numbers (even at launch when they are high from pent up demand) is quite sad. For the umpteenth time.

it’s like explaining the simplicity of 2+2=4…. But to a 2 month old infant. LOL

You have no point, so you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over hoping to somehow change the result.

Definition of insanity. Look it up

hey, have fun with that.

like most on this forum, the mustang is my favorite nameplate of any car in history. I WANT it to be great for its time. However, I’m also a realist and honest about where things are. It’s just not great right now. It’s actually a bit disappointing in the aforementioned respects. And it would appear the buying public is in agreement. Mustangs sales have dropped a whopping 17% compared to the same time last year.

here’s hoping Ford sees what everyone else sees and makes the car compelling in future generations (far beyond the obvious upcoming high end editions of this gen) and sets the standard as they have done in past iterations. No more excuses. Time to invest in the platform and push the pedal to the metal. No more “magic in the air” pixie dust nostalgia talk. We want real, tangible, measurable success.

to quote and oldie but goodie - “build it and they will come.”

Great article here:

https://autos.yahoo.com/chevrolet-corvette-c8-surpasses-camaro-160052176.html

 

[Mustang1987]

Yeah…no. And you know it. But I guess that’s your gig.

Your “point” is the same thing as saying a Ferrari model doesn’t have mustang sales, even if it’s a great- selling farrari, so it must not be as good right? Derp. Derp. It’s a niche car. So the niche car has niche sales. But the niche car selling well for its category and tremendously upping the performance that it’s known for? Resounding success. But the mustang, having the same performance as a 12 year old version and seeing sales take a nosedive from their traditional numbers (even at launch when they are high from pent up demand) is quite sad. For the umpteenth time.

it’s like explaining the simplicity of 2+2=4…. But to a 2 month old infant. LOL

You have no point, so you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over hoping to somehow change the result.

Definition of insanity. Look it up

hey, have fun with that.

Absolutely wrong on all points. Ferraris are $400k. Corvettes are $60k.

Mustang and Corvette are both two door performance cars with about $15k difference in price between the Gt and base Corvette. If you don't think they're competing in the same market you're nuts.

It just so happens that the mustang is so popular and well loved that it's not considered niche.

 

[9secondko]

Absolutely wrong on all points. Ferraris are $400k. Corvettes are $60k.

Mustang and Corvette are both two door performance cars with about $15k difference in price between the Gt and base Corvette. If you don't think they're competing in the same market you're nuts.

It just so happens that the mustang is so popular and well loved that it's not considered niche.

wrong again. It’s not about doors. It’s about livability. The mustang has storage, 2 extra seats, and a more livable cabin. Price and doors don’t changethst fact. A young family msn can’t justify a vette, but can definitely get a mustang. A single person who wants to be able to take his or her friends out on the town, needs a mustang as well versus a 2 seater. Mustang can be someone’s only car. Corvette, Ferrari, etc. is a second car deal for anyone who’s not an antisocial single person. That’s where the possible clientele base shrinks significantly for true sports cars versus pony cars.

Price is why corvette outsells Ferrari, which it compares to. But it’s not comparable to a 4 seater with storage and a more livable cabin. The mustang is a sociable car. 2 seaters are more isolated and impractical experiences by design. They make sacrifices to make a point. These sacrifices are not mass market friendly. And yet the corvette made its point so well, that it even outsold the Camaro. The mustang usually outsold Camaro. The vette? A two seater with limited practicality, not do much. But now we see the mustang selling worse then it should snd the vette selling better than it should be.

The question isn’t does an apple sell more than an orange. It’s are apple sales down for its category snd orange sales doing well for its category?

we all know the answer to that. End of lesson.

 

[Mustang1987]

Wrong. I can count on one hand how many people buy mustangs for the two seats in the back.

When I was looking to purchase a car, it was between the Mustang and Corvette. I'm not the only one. It's all over car forums which vehicle they should get. They share a market whether you like it or not lol I eventually decided on the Mustang.

If it were about livibilty, the Camaro would have outsold the Corvette, but it wasn't and GM cannibalized their own sales. The same reason Ford doesn't produce a direct equivalent to the Corvette, they would hurt Mustang sales. Guarantee if Ford made a equivalent to the Corvette, Mustang sales would drop in half lol so there is a market they share.

 

[9secondko]

Wrong. I can count on one hand how many people buy mustangs for the two seats in the back.

When I was looking to purchase a car, it was between the Mustang and Corvette. I'm not the only one. It's all over car forums which vehicle they should get. They share a market whether you like it or not lol I eventually decided on the Mustang.

If it were about livibilty, the Camaro would have outsold the Corvette, but it wasn't and GM cannibalized their own sales. The same reason Ford doesn't produce a direct equivalent to the Corvette, they would hurt Mustang sales. Guarantee if Ford made a equivalent to the Corvette, Mustang sales would drop in half lol so there is a market they share.

when all else fails, rely on the ye ol’ personal opinion and choices. Not going to argue with your opinion or your choice.

hey I’m glad you got the car you wanted. Why in the world you made that decision if not for the convenience, you only know. So congrats. Sounds like you’re happy and that’s what matters.

I’m not. The mustang has 12 year old performance and looks 9 years old - because it is. So I, like a lot of folks, can’t justify the expense. Hence the downturn in sales. As much as I like the c8, I’m also not buying that since I have a new twin turbo z4 in the house. I’m not a fan of 2 seaters at all, but the c8 is so compelling, if I didn’t have the z, I’d have a z06. The chick wanted the bmw though. So there you go. But I’d rather have a compelling Mustang than either.

and of course there are some who don’t fit the mass market and will cross-shop apples and oranges. I’m one of those, so I don’t disagree.

but the mass market is a different beast than most of us enthusiasts. And the market has warmed up to the vette while cooling off on the mustang. Ford needs to step up and make the thing compelling in this new era.

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