2024 mustang the problem with expectations

[Karguy]

There is a flip side to what you are saying. You can arguably say Ford was able to do a facelift and screens and still keep selling cars at a moderate level. That would speak to the strength of the S550. It's all about perspective and you must remember, not all people who buy Mustangs are enthusiasts. Some people just want a sport cars. I have a couple of guys at my gym, one has a Supra, one as a GT350 and both appear that they have never been washed. I am not hating on them, but some people just drive cars.

I am a hard core car and motorcycle enthusiast and DD my stuff...Touchscreens for me are not a dealbreaker but they are not safe as you have to take your eyes off the road as a I-phone does not travel 100 feet a second and greasy paw prints are a nuisance...A compromise would be cheap screens but knobs and buttons to operate them...As far as the EV BS that is mandated by the governments who believe in the C02/climate hoax...EVs produce more C02 than ICE powered vehicles...Here the BS should stop ! I thought car makers had highly paid lobbyists in Washington & Brussels instead of wasting billion$$$ on stuff nobody wants or can afford...Imagine when trucks go electric like the idiots envision where half the payload will be the battery , 300 mile range , 15 hour charging and not enough electricity in hot or cold months...We will be like Cuba where you still see 70 year old american cars used every day...The green future...LOL I wont think it will get that bad and hope in Nov the horror show brought on by Musk / Tesla and some save the climate cultists will be over for good...And people keep their jobs instead of being laid off because dealerships and service shops will be closed and we get our electric cars from the same places we get our phones from today and throw these things away and buy new ones every 8 years max when the batteries are dead...We have to jump off the crazy train before its too late !

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[Mustang1987]

I love the way the s650 looks, love the interior and screens, and it's got 40 more horsepower than last year. Only thing missing is being able to tune it. Everything else is great.

Also, sales are down because all car sales are down. Most people buy small SUVs and crossovers now. It's still the number one selling sports car. Beats all the other performance and sports cars that some say the mustang should be like lol

 

[Rocket Man]

I for one am happy I can still buy an almost 500HP rear wheel drive pony car (with a manual if that's your thing). Would you rather Ford have just cancelled the Mustang like Chevy and Dodge?
So it's not all new, big deal. Still a really nice, fast car that's somewhat affordable. And way better than the alternatives.

 

[Karguy]

To be honest for a sports car the Mustang is too heavy...The Mustang is more a sporty cruiser if we are honest.The Camaro was a better sports car than the snap oversteer Corvette and the Challenger is a cruiser that is very fun to drive on the streets...As far as beating all the alternatives you are right as there is no other car anymore with a V8 and a manual...LOL

 

[Gogoggansgo]

i dont think we can consider the S650 a failure just yet, its only in its first full year of sales (it wasnt available to mass market until august/September last year). we also need to look at global sales whenever it hits the European market. if we're going by US sales here then the Mustang has been a failure since 2006 when they sold 166K mustangs, not even the first full year of the S550 got near that (only 122k sold).

but looking at the numbers we have for 2023 theres a 2.2% increase in sales YoY. the S550 went on sale around September 2014 where they had a 7% increase in sales YoY. so the S550 did start off on a stronger foot than the S650.

so, are mustang sales down, yes, but theyve always been down, are mustangs expensive, yes. but looking at the FRED CPI for new cars with September 2014 as the index date which today means that middle of 34,985 from september 2014 multiplied by the CPI of 1.222 makes it 42,751.67. but lets knock that into a little more perspective here by taking out the DH and the 50th anniversary edition.

the middle for 2015 V6-GTPrem mustangs was: 32,800
thats CPI adjusted of: 40,081.6

the middle for non DH S650s is: 42,812.5

so really its not THAT much more than what you were paying in 2015, just looks like it because number scary and boss refuses to pay me more.

I never said it was a failure it’s kinda of a disappointment from a sales/ aftermarket perspective. It’s an interesting topic to talk about because ford has had this problem before with the 94s, 96”was real bad” and 2015s, it’ll all depend on long term support plus pricing incentives

 

[Gogoggansgo]

To be honest for a sports car the Mustang is too heavy...The Mustang is more a sporty cruiser if we are honest.The Camaro was a better sports car than the snap oversteer Corvette and the Challenger is a cruiser that is very fun to drive on the streets...As far as beating all the alternatives you are right as there is no other car anymore with a V8 and a manual...LOL

I was really tired when i wrote my first post but i 100 percent agree for the money they could have gone mostly aluminum panels, and it wouldn’t have hurt the bottom line. The s650 is a gen 1.5 s550 and that’s not a bad thing but like i said the pricing is the major issue bar none

 

[Gogoggansgo]

I for one am happy I can still buy an almost 500HP rear wheel drive pony car (with a manual if that's your thing). Would you rather Ford have just cancelled the Mustang like Chevy and Dodge?
So it's not all new, big deal. Still a really nice, fast car that's somewhat affordable. And way better than the alternatives.

It’s more complicated than that because ford is taking the easy way out. Both GM and dodge had ultimatums that the general public didn’t know about. The Camaro sales where god awful after the refresh plus the C8 completely took the market, so Chevy said screw it no more Camaro. Dodge was given an ultimatum a couple years ago by the CEO of FCA at the time, that if they didn’t go fully electric, they would cut funding to the company thus rendering them dead in the water. Which is why you’ve seen them go full bore into it when electric car sales are failing big time. Dodge is in big time trouble. Ford is kinda in there own world for both good and bad i really don’t want another 3 valve mustang situation so we shall see

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Or if it came with simply 50 hp more? Interesting what a factory confirmed tune alone can do (simply look at dh and gt redline and hp/trq) just image when the adding begins.

Unfortunately the coyote platform and architecture is getting very old. It originally had a 10 year lifespan, was both DI and boost rated from day 1 meaning they had plans for it down the road even though it took quite a while. With current emissions standards it’ll take more revs, or bigger displacement to get any meaningful gains. I don’t see ford doing it for a regular GT, I’ll also be disappointed if they don’t use this new dual throttle body intake for a proper flat plane crank firing order. They had to make huge compromises on the firing order to get it to work with a single throttlebody which resulted in a rocking couple. Aka the 350s can and do shake themselves to death

The future will be very interesting

 

[Gogoggansgo]

I love the way the s650 looks, love the interior and screens, and it's got 40 more horsepower than last year. Only thing missing is being able to tune it. Everything else is great.

Also, sales are down because all car sales are down. Most people buy small SUVs and crossovers now. It's still the number one selling sports car. Beats all the other performance and sports cars that some say the mustang should be like lol

This is true if it was a fusion enthusiast vehicles across the board are up considerably. I think ford thought they where going to have a C8 moment with the 2024s and it shows by how brass they where in the media about the car. Nothing except this more than watching Savage geese’s video, where the engineers didn’t even talk about all the changes mechanically. It was all about the stupid screens the whole time. This should tell you everything you need to know about where their head is at

 

[Mustang1987]

This is true if it was a fusion enthusiast vehicles across the board are up considerably. I think ford thought they where going to have a C8 moment with the 2024s and it shows by how brass they where in the media about the car. Nothing except this more than watching Savage geese’s video, where the engineers didn’t even talk about all the changes mechanically. It was all about the stupid screens the whole time. This should tell you everything you need to know about where their head is at

S650 Mustang is beating the c8 in sales. S650 is doing better than what the Camaro did in sales. Everyone is naming traits of other sports cars the mustang should copy, when the mustang is number one in sales, so who should copy who

 

[Gogoggansgo]

S650 Mustang is beating the c8 in sales. S650 is doing better than what the Camaro did in sales. Everyone is naming traits of other sports cars the mustang should copy, when the mustang is number one in sales, so who should copy who

The C8 is in its own world and this isn’t 2015 ford will not sell 120k mustangs, that’s my point. If it had some wild engine in it or was cheaper we would have a different decision. I love the 24s but ford is being lazy across the board not just with the Mustang. You can tell they put most of there R&D budget in the ford
Model E and it’s been a flop. My disappointment with corporate is on a level i can’t even type lol

 

[Klipshpoke]

Unfortunately the coyote platform and architecture is getting very old. It originally had a 10 year lifespan, was both DI and boost rated from day 1 meaning they had plans for it down the road even though it took quite a while. With current emissions standards it’ll take more revs, or bigger displacement to get any meaningful gains. I don’t see ford doing it for a regular GT, I’ll also be disappointed if they don’t use this new dual throttle body intake for a proper flat plane crank firing order. They had to make huge compromises on the firing order to get it to work with a single throttlebody which resulted in a rocking couple. Aka the 350s can and do shake themselves to death

The future will be very interesting

I doubt highly that ford will create another V8 motor. You have your Coyote and your 7.3 for about 3-4 more years and then say goodby. I'm have doubts that they will ever be able to make the 7.3 work in a mustang just from an emissions perspective.

They had to choke down the previous generation of Coyote for 22-23 just to pass emissions. The fact that they were able to go to the drawing board and add 36 HP to the GT and 30 to the Mach1 (to DH) on the same platform despite the increased emissions challenges is a freaking miracle. Thats a crap ton for a NA motor. It sucks that they added some weight in the process to negate some of the gains. Waiting may not pay off as the next iteration of these cars may take another step back like they did in 22.

The EcoBoost is the future. New V8 design died years ago for mass produced cars. Hell, even Dodge's new ICE motor is a turbo 6 and its going to outperform the 6.4 from the start.

 

[Mustang1987]

The C8 is in its own world and this isn’t 2015 ford will not sell 120k mustangs, that’s my point. If it had some wild engine in it or was cheaper we would have a different decision. I love the 24s but ford is being lazy across the board not just with the Mustang. You can tell they put most of there R&D budget in the ford
Model E and it’s been a flop. My disappointment with corporate is on a level i can’t even type lol

No sports car is going to sell 120k vehicles anymore no matter what, that's my point. They're still the best selling sports car, so no one is doing it better. Not c8, not Camaro, not challenger, not charger, no BMWs, no one.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

I doubt highly that ford will create another V8 motor. You have your Coyote and your 7.3 for about 3-4 more years and then say goodby. I'm have doubts that they will ever be able to make the 7.3 work in a mustang just from an emissions perspective.

They had to choke down the previous generation of Coyote for 22-23 just to pass emissions. The fact that they were able to go to the drawing board and add 36 HP to the GT and 30 to the Mach1 (to DH) on the same platform despite the increased emissions challenges is a freaking miracle. Thats a crap ton for a NA motor. It sucks that they added some weight in the process to negate some of gains. I wouldn't be surprised if they have to backstep again in a couple of years.

The EcoBoost is the future. New V8 design died years ago for mass produced cars. Hell, even Dodge's new ICE motor is a turbo 6 and its going to outperform the 6.4 from the start.

Im surprised they haven’t shoved in the 3.0 Ecoboost and made a mustang ST. I’d buy one, they also don’t sound like butt because they have equal length exhaust manifolds. You’re 100 percent correct ford isn’t going to invest in a new motor unless they can use it or put it in the f150
Per say. They won’t use the 7.3 in the mustang primary because it would make all those years of mod engine look kinda stupid but then again Chevy did the same with the LT6. So i don’t hold my breath, ford is also being much much cheaper than Chevy is with the C8. What i mean by that is if they wanted to go all out and make a 600hp N/A but they wont. Like i said the future will be interesting

 

[Gogoggansgo]

No sports car is going to sell 120k vehicles anymore no matter what, that's my point. They're still the best selling sports car, so no one is doing it better. Not c8, not Camaro, not challenger, not charger, no BMWs, no one.

bud you’re smoking crack if you think a ford mustang is a better drivers car than a GT3 or even a M4. As someone who rides around on an Italian stallion, it’s two different worlds. Also the mustang is not a sport car, I’ve always considered it to be a jack of all trades which is what it excels at, just like a basic 911. But to think it’s comparable it’s really stupid

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