What a Max Effort N/A S650 Looks Like

[tj@steeda]

We're going to be gifting you the recipe to make over 50 additional horsepower to your s650 gt without boost or nitrous. This mustang gt upgrade focuses on engine mods and reveals impressive dyno results. We explore how to achieve a significant performance upgrade through camshaft adjustments, comparing the horsepower vs torque gains. Get the Cobra Jet & Cams Combo Here: Coming Soon!

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[Junkyard Dog]

Ok, but that is, like, um, one hundred and fifty horsepower at 576, right? Not fifty?

 

[MustangMitch69]

Ok, but that is, like, um, one hundred and fifty horsepower at 576, right? Not fifty?

The GT comes with 480-486 (with active valve exhaust) stock, so 576 is 90-96 more. More than 50, not more than 100.

 

[robvas]

The GT comes with 480-486 (with active valve exhaust) stock, so 576 is 90-96 more. More than 50, not more than 100.

52hp

Steeda's just talking about adding the Cobra Jet, dual TB adapter, and GSC camshafts


Also, they are talking HP at the wheels, where a stock GT will make 400-430 depending on how happy the dyno is.

 

[ZXMustang]

The GT comes with 480-486 (with active valve exhaust) stock, so 576 is 90-96 more. More than 50, not more than 100.

There is still time to delete this ^.

 

[MustangMitch69]

There is still time to delete this ^.

Because it's the "to the wheels" difference? I didn't watch the video. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and its no big deal. Being a jerk to a stranger on the internet would be a bigger offense.

 

[ZXMustang]

Because it's the "to the wheels" difference? I didn't watch the video. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and its no big deal. Being a jerk to a stranger on the internet would be a bigger offense.

Simply saying you have time to delete this before this thread goes nuts, isnt being a jerk. I was trying to save you from exactly that. And yes the values given by ford are flywheel HP and what steeda is showing is WHP or wheel hp. To the wheels.

Apples to apples, a generic stock s650 makes around 400ish hp to the wheels. So to make 576whp (to the wheels), they are up probably close to 150hp over stock being NA. Thats damn impressive. Of course with cams and CJ intake cost it isnt. The new ESS kit is about $6500 and will make 700 to the wheels with a 120 pulley, no fuel system on 93. So if you are an NA ranger, then you can do this and make high 500s. You'd be chasing foolish numbers though in comparison to just getting boost.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Steeda's just talking about adding the Cobra Jet, dual TB adapter, and GSC camshafts

Looks like you need to use adjustable engine mounts to lower the engine.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

So if you are an NA ranger, then you can do this and make high 500s. You'd be chasing foolish numbers though in comparison to just getting boost.

Well, apparently not if you want to open the throttle for long stretches at a time. Everybody is telling me that any boost will cause the car to go into limp mode or, worse, close the ring gap and bust a piston ring land



And so far everything I can find seems to be confirming that.

The only boosted Mustangs I can find that were being tracked are either older (back when making 430 horsepower to the wheels required boost) or being driven very easily (confirmed by one or two track videos I have watched, where the driving feels like 60-70% of the car's capability).

I think even Steeda has a track day video where they took their Whippled Mustang to the track and could not catch the naturally aspirated Mustang that they also brought, perhaps due to so much timing being pulled. And it was not a hot day. It is posted somewhere on this forum (and apologies if it is not Steeda but another vendor, as I am going off memory).

There is a new dual turbo S650 build over at TrackMustangsOnline that I am following. He claims to have run it on the waste gate spring at 7 lbs on E85 on a coolish day (65-70) without any overheating issues. He is determined to upgrade cooling and keep hitting the track. He had the dual turbos on a drag Mustang previously, turned up to 1200 hp. I am watching the build to learn whatever I can, good or bad, but it is January, so it is going to be a while.

 

[MustangMitch69]

Simply saying you have time to delete this before this thread goes nuts, isnt being a jerk. I was trying to save you from exactly that. And yes the values given by ford are flywheel HP and what steeda is showing is WHP or wheel hp. To the wheels.

Apples to apples, a generic stock s650 makes around 400ish hp to the wheels. So to make 576whp (to the wheels), they are up probably close to 150hp over stock being NA. Thats damn impressive. Of course with cams and CJ intake cost it isnt. The new ESS kit is about $6500 and will make 700 to the wheels with a 120 pulley, no fuel system on 93. So if you are an NA ranger, then you can do this and make high 500s. You'd be chasing foolish numbers though in comparison to just getting boost.

Thanks, happy to learn something new. I'm not the ultra-detailed type, otherwise I'd probably be a 911 driver, working downtown as a dentist or physician, wearing a little puffy vest, and thinking twice about opening a window while the AC is on "just to be safe."

 

[ZXMustang]

Well, apparently not if you want to open the throttle for long stretches at a time. Everybody is telling me that any boost will cause the car to go into limp mode or, worse, close the ring gap and bust a piston ring land



And so far everything I can find seems to be confirming that.

The only boosted Mustangs I can find that were being tracked are either older (back when making 430 horsepower to the wheels required boost) or being driven very easily (confirmed by one or two track videos I have watched, where the driving feels like 60-70% of the car's capability).

I think even Steeda has a track day video where they took their Whippled Mustang to the track and could not catch the naturally aspirated Mustang that they also brought, perhaps due to so much timing being pulled. And it was not a hot day. It is posted somewhere on this forum (and apologies if it is not Steeda but another vendor, as I am going off memory).

There is a new dual turbo S650 build over at TrackMustangsOnline that I am following. He claims to have run it on the waste gate spring at 7 lbs on E85 on a coolish day (70s) without any issues. He is determined to upgrade cooling and keep hitting the track. He had the dual turbos on a drag Mustang previously, turned up to 1200 hp. I am watching the build to learn whatever I can, good or bad, but it is January, so it is going to be a while.

Well tuning has been a "thing" since july of "last year" now, we are able to tune them to not go into limp mode. The reason for that was because of IPC tq errors going off the charts when the car was looking for under 500ftlbs of tq (calculated), and was seeing way more. So the IPC was triggering limp mode because it figured there was a problem.

Since July, we have been able to adjust the tq tables now to account for higher values and scale up the airload to well over 2.0 so none of the factory airload or tq limiters will cause any tq management issues.

I wouldnt worry about engine longevity under long pulls when you have a correctly tuned car that has plenty of fuel system headroom and correct spark advance. There are gen 1/2/3 cars running around with hundreds of thousands of miles making big highway pulls with 700-1000hp with no trouble. And have for years and years at this point. The S650 is no different.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Well tuning has been a "thing" since july of "last year" now, we are able to tune them to not go into limp mode. The reason for that was because of IPC tq errors going off the charts when the car was looking for under 500ftlbs of tq (calculated), and was seeing way more. So the IPC was triggering limp mode because it figured there was a problem.

Since July, we have been able to adjust the tq tables now to account for higher values and scale up the airload to well over 2.0 so none of the factory airload or tq limiters will cause any tq management issues.

I wouldnt worry about engine longevity under long pulls when you have a correctly tuned car that has plenty of fuel system headroom and correct spark advance. There are gen 1/2/3 cars running around with hundreds of thousands of miles making big highway pulls with 700-1000hp with no trouble. And have for years and years at this point. The S650 is no different.

With ring gap on the stock engine, I am thinking 30 minute track sessions are going to close that gap sooner or later on a summer day.

 

[Ricketts]

Sweet! Nice to see you guys pushing the envelope on what can be done with a N/A combo.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

52hp

Steeda's just talking about adding the Cobra Jet, dual TB adapter, and GSC camshafts

Yeah, I got it, but I assume anybody buying the four cams and the Cobra jet are also going to add headers, E85, and, oh, I dunno, maybe a tune?

576 at the wheels is kicking.

I wish you did not have to lower the engine to fit the manifold. You have to lose the strut brace, too.

But this engine is much less likely to close the ring gap and pop a chunk of your piston land off than running 10 psi of boost for a 30 minute track session during the month of August in Arizona, Texas, or Georgia. It is probably less likely to exceed the cooling ability of the Dark Horse, too.

So this 576 whp is without the ported heads.

Isn't the next logical step ported heads?

 

[robvas]

Yeah, I got it, but I assume anybody buying the four cams and the Cobra jet are also going to add headers, E85, and, oh, I dunno, maybe a tune?

576 at the wheels is kicking.

I wish you did not have to lower the engine to fit the manifold. You have to lose the strut brace, too.

But this engine is much less likely to close the ring gap and pop a chunk of your piston land off than running 10 psi of boost for a 30 minute track session during the month of August in Arizona, Texas, or Georgia. It is probably less likely to exceed the cooling ability of the Dark Horse, too.

So this 576 whp is without the ported heads.

Isn't the next logical step ported heads?

Who cares about the dumb strut brace.

They had ported heads and thought maybe the compression loss was not worth the airflow. And John Boschma runs about the same using stock heads.

I think they are on C85 gas but I might be wrong

How long would this combo stay together at the track if you're running around 7k?

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