2024 mustang the problem with expectations

[Gogoggansgo]

I say they sell more than 50k this year. Way more. No Chevy or Dodge competition.

im honestly curious because it either will or won’t

if they don’t we got a major problem, i also find it funny how the challenger comes up as a sport cars under sales data. Dodge really screwed up how to handle that car they didn’t have an option but man it’s a mess over there

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[Zig]

Unfortunately the coyote platform and architecture is getting very old. It originally had a 10 year lifespan, was both DI and boost rated from day 1 meaning they had plans for it down the road even though it took quite a while. With current emissions standards it’ll take more revs, or bigger displacement to get any meaningful gains. I don’t see ford doing it for a regular GT, I’ll also be disappointed if they don’t use this new dual throttle body intake for a proper flat plane crank firing order. They had to make huge compromises on the firing order to get it to work with a single throttlebody which resulted in a rocking couple. Aka the 350s can and do shake themselves to death

The future will be very interesting

I know several (items) older than 10 and still kicking.

 

[9secondko]

I get both sides of it the budget was small for the car “EVs baby lol” and emissions are getting worse but it’s also like so you’re not going to go all out. Then be happy with that 50k ya sold last year because it won’t get better unless you drop the price

pretty much. We all understand Fords justification for not doing much other than basically a mid-gen facelift. But they had to go and get stingy and lie to everyone, calling it “all-new.” LOL. And then charge more.

it’s crazy how “playing it safe” is often anything but. Either you have vision or you don’t. You maximize what you can do in a situation. The corvette was a sorry car last gen and has always lagged in sales. But what did GM do? Also some touchscreens and taillights on the old car and call it a new gen? Not only did they not do that, but they reinvented the whole freaking thing - and in so doing gave the car a a whole shiny new lease on life. Enthusiasm abounds for the corvette now, even from people who previously disliked the car.

Meanwhile, here is Ford, “playing it safe” and watching it wither, lose the respect and enthusiasm it had, and everything is drying up.

if you wanted to sell last gen’s car, refresh for a couple years and do that. But don’t expect to sell last gen’s car as a new thing at “new thing” prices. That’s shameful. And from all appearances, the buying public has awoken to that fact snd is taking their buying power elsewhere. Even the Mustang faithful is doubting. So many of us have been looking forward to this generation, only to be met with… this.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

I know several (items) older than 10 and still kicking.

lol this is true but the original program was 10 years. I still got a lot of the early documentation somewhere

 

[Gogoggansgo]

pretty much. We all understand Fords justification for not doing much other than basically a mid-gen facelift. But they had to go and get stingy and lie to everyone, calling it “all-new.” LOL. And then charge more.

it’s crazy how “playing it safe” is often anything but. Either you have vision or you don’t. You maximize what you can do in a situation. The corvette was a sorry car last gen and has always lagged in sales. But what did GM do? Also some touchscreens and taillights on the old car and call it a new gen? Not only did they not do that, but they reinvented the whole freaking thing - and in so doing gave the car a a whole shiny new lease on life. Enthusiasm abounds for the corvette now, even from people who previously disliked the car.

Meanwhile, here is Ford, “playing it safe” and watching it wither, lose the respect and enthusiasm it had, and everything is drying up.

if you wanted to sell last gen’s car, refresh for a couple years and do that. But don’t expect to sell last gen’s car as a new thing at “new thing” prices. That’s shameful. And from all appearances, the buying public has awoken to that fact snd is taking their buying power elsewhere. Even the Mustang faithful is doubting. So many of us have been looking forward to this generation, only to be met with… this.

This is why i brought up the 2005-2010 3 valve cars by 2010 it was like ummm guys this ain’t funny anymore lol we got 100 less hp

 

[Mustang1987]

pretty much. We all understand Fords justification for not doing much other than basically a mid-gen facelift. But they had to go and get stingy and lie to everyone, calling it “all-new.” LOL. And then charge more.

it’s crazy how “playing it safe” is often anything but. Either you have vision or you don’t. You maximize what you can do in a situation. The corvette was a sorry car last gen and has always lagged in sales. But what did GM do? Also some touchscreens and taillights on the old car and call it a new gen? Not only did they not do that, but they reinvented the whole freaking thing - and in so doing gave the car a a whole shiny new lease on life. Enthusiasm abounds for the corvette now, even from people who previously disliked the car.

Meanwhile, here is Ford, “playing it safe” and watching it wither, lose the respect and enthusiasm it had, and everything is drying up.

if you wanted to sell last gen’s car, refresh for a couple years and do that. But don’t expect to sell last gen’s car as a new thing at “new thing” prices. That’s shameful. And from all appearances, the buying public has awoken to that fact snd is taking their buying power elsewhere. Even the Mustang faithful is doubting. So many of us have been looking forward to this generation, only to be met with… this.

This post would make sense if the Corvette was selling more than Mustang, but mustangs are selling 2x more than Corvette.

If your post was just about performance, then that's one thing, but you mentioned sales and how the public has awoken judging by the sales of the mustang. It's still the number one seller.

So I wouldnt say the 5k mustangs sold this month means ford did something wrong, because that means Corvette did something wrong as well because they sold 3k. So I'd say keep the convo performance oriented if you like the Corvette, don't bring sales into it lol

 

[Gogoggansgo]

This post would make sense if the Corvette was selling more than Mustang, but mustangs are selling 2x more than Corvette.

If your post was just about performance, then that's one thing, but you mentioned sales and how the public has awoken judging by the sales of the mustang. It's still the number one seller.

So I wouldnt say the 5k mustangs sold this month means ford did something wrong, because that means Corvette did something wrong as well because they sold 3k. So I'd say keep the convo performance oriented if you like the Corvette, don't bring sales into it lol

It’s not 1 to 1 though the vette is fighting for sales against the 911 which it’s doing very well. The Mustang is in its own little
World and that’s okay. I think price and performance is definitely an issue. That needs work

 

[Mustang1987]

It’s not 1 to 1 though the vette is fighting for sales against the 911 which it’s doing very well. The Mustang is in its own little
World and that’s okay. I think price and performance is definitely an issue. That needs work

They're all fighting for sales against each other. Yeah, the price is high, but the base mustang is pretty inexpensive. That's one of the problems to me is that it's hard for Ford to improve so much performance wise because they have to sell a base mustang that's $40k, that can go up to $63k with extras and be in the same price range as a Corvette. Corvette doesn't have to worry about an inexpensive base design, so they were able to redesign everything with a higher price in mind.

But still, you can get a mustang that can go 0-60 in 3.6 seconds according to the testing from one of the car magazines, and that's really good for a front engine real wheel drive car that has a base of $40k for a v8.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

They're all fighting for sales against each other. Yeah, the price is high, but the base mustang is pretty inexpensive. That's one of the problems to me is that it's hard for Ford to improve so much performance wise because they have to sell a base mustang that's $40k, that can go up to $63k with extras and be in the same price range as a Corvette. Corvette doesn't have to worry about an inexpensive base design, so they were able to redesign everything with a higher price in mind.

But still, you can get a mustang that can go 0-60 in 3.6 seconds according to the testing from one of the car magazines, and that's really good for a front engine real wheel drive car that has a base of $40k for a v8.

You have to remember the C8 across the board has a waitlist they also don’t make anywhere near as many per hour vs the mustang. I’m sure Chevy would love to expand production but you can also make too much and run into issues where well we got two plants running wide open now sales tanked. That’s what i meant by 1 to 1 or sales isn’t a good comparison per se. Because both the vette and mustang even in bad times will always sell. Its about the car and its reception versus expectations

which i find to be very interesting for the 24s IMO

 

[Mustang1987]

You have to remember the C8 across the board has a waitlist they also don’t make anywhere near as many per hour vs the mustang. I’m sure Chevy would love to expand production but you can also make too much and run into issues where well we got two plants running wide open now sales tanked. That’s what i meant by 1 to 1 or sales isn’t a good comparison per se. Because both the vette and mustang even in bad times will always sell. Its about the car and its reception versus expectations

which i find to be very interesting for the 24s IMO

Corvettes are about 3-4 months now, so not much wait at all. Seems like people will see a $63k mustang and chirp about the price not knowing one can be had for $39k lol

I don't know, guess we will see in time

 

[Karguy]

Interesting topic/discussion for sure ! The Mustang is efinitely not a sportscar because of size/weight and how the chassis performs.It feels BIG and does not rotate which means when pushed the front plows/understeers followed by a quick snap oversteer...The handling should be neutral , the car more composed and the rear should stay in line.Less weight is a must too.All this is only available with a all new platform...Ford should have gone where the Challenger/Charger have left...Sporty car and 4 door fun family car and police sales.
The Coyote had always the highest redline and possibly most hp but only if you drive around between 6500 and 7000 rpm...Unfortunately 90% of the time you are between 1000 and 4000 rpm if that high and here the Coyote feels more like a V6 Camry...So more displacement as in more BORE needs to be part of the equation.A new block allowing for more bore spacing but Ford rather spend the money on Mach-E and Lightning nobody wants/buys...
Also why a lighter aluminum body for the F150 and not for the supposed sports car Mustang ?
Superchargers suck a lot of gas because they cause up to 150hp of drag...Why no turbos and with all the power why no AWD to actually be able to put the power down ?
And the Mustang trying to go where Porsche with the 911 is and then going with this old platform ? A recipe for disaster...Or the GTD a car looking like a Mustang for 300 grand but then as real as a NASCAR Camry compared to the one you can actually buy...Makes you wonder what goes on upstairs with these guys who are in charge ? AS for the C8 you cant compare it with a Mustang or Camaro...Completey different crowd as also the car a real comfortable cruiser trying to look something from Italy but uglier/heavier/bigger and now AARP friendly automatic only...THese people buy anything as long as it says Corvette on it...A Mustang at least still has V8 sound inside the cabin and also a stick ! For C8 money you might as well spend a little more and get a 911 as a real sportscar for the full experience even if GT3 or S/T are stupid money now or still too cheap for the rich...LOL

 

[Upacurb]

Im guessing most of Ford Mustang sales come from EcoBoosts- not GTs
I would say the Dark Horse is more of a direct comparison to a C8- and more people are buying C8s then Dark Horses (assuming Ford is not selling 3K Dark Horses a month)

I dont think its fair to let Ford pump out a gazillion EcoBoost rental cars and then claim its the best selling sports car.....

Next- the idea that the Mustang cant stack up with some of the best drivers cars in the world....

Well- lets go back a generation to the GT350s
The GT350 won just about every drivers car comparison - only losing out to cars 2 to 3 times its price....so Ford does know how to make the S550/S650 platform work...

(Not to mention the Dark Horse has already clicked off a win against the M2)

As far as the GT350 having a lot of vibration in the motor.....you know its a funny thing.... when the original designers of the flat crank for the C8 were designing the motor- they were laughing at the fact that the first GT350s used to vibrate the oil filter off......they were laughing until the same thing happened to them......even with the "correct" firing order- and had to go to a bolt on design for the oil filter to keep it attached to the motor .....

The VooDoo is a more temperamental motor then the Coyote- but if you keep it stock and follow the "rules" of VooDoo ownership...the final generations with the Predator Block are known to be reliable motors- lots of us with lots of trouble free miles on our cars .....

Although its funny to watch you guys all talk about perception when the same YouTuber Tick Toks that were making vidoes left and right OMG OMG EVERY VOODOO IS A TICKING TIME BOMB - are now focusing on the S650- OMG its slower then an S550!! OMG IT WEIGHTS 400 POUNDS MORE!! CLICK SUBSCRIBE NOW!!

At the end of the day - every variation of the S550 and S650 is an awesome car.....and Ill take my cheap interior if it lets me have V8 noises every day and all day ......

 

[Karguy]

Im guessing most of Ford Mustang sales come from EcoBoosts- not GTs
I would say the Dark Horse is more of a direct comparison to a C8- and more people are buying C8s then Dark Horses (assuming Ford is not selling 3K Dark Horses a month)

I dont think its fair to let Ford pump out a gazillion EcoBoost rental cars and then claim its the best selling sports car.....

Next- the idea that the Mustang cant stack up with some of the best drivers cars in the world....

Well- lets go back a generation to the GT350s
The GT350 won just about every drivers car comparison - only losing out to cars 2 to 3 times its price....so Ford does know how to make the S550/S650 platform work...

(Not to mention the Dark Horse has already clicked off a win against the M2)

As far as the GT350 having a lot of vibration in the motor.....you know its a funny thing.... when the original designers of the flat crank for the C8 were designing the motor- they were laughing at the fact that the first GT350s used to vibrate the oil filter off......they were laughing until the same thing happened to them......even with the "correct" firing order- and had to go to a bolt on design for the oil filter to keep it attached to the motor .....

The VooDoo is a more temperamental motor then the Coyote- but if you keep it stock and follow the "rules" of VooDoo ownership...the final generations with the Predator Block are known to be reliable motors- lots of us with lots of trouble free miles on our cars .....

Although its funny to watch you guys all talk about perception when the same YouTuber Tick Toks that were making vidoes left and right OMG OMG EVERY VOODOO IS A TICKING TIME BOMB - are now focusing on the S650- OMG its slower then an S550!! OMG IT WEIGHTS 400 POUNDS MORE!! CLICK SUBSCRIBE NOW!!

At the end of the day - every variation of the S550 and S650 is an awesome car.....and Ill take my cheap interior if it lets me have V8 noises every day and all day ......

I just want to say that is why Ferrari ,AMG or BMW in their M3 DTM racecars never made flat-plane crankshaft engines with more than 4 liters displacement....vvvibbbrations ! And I dont think a flat-plane V8 sounds like a V 8...IMHO Not a fan...More vibration,less torque,no real V8 sound for a little more topend ? I guess in racing ok but otherwise who cares...

 

[Mustang1987]

Im guessing most of Ford Mustang sales come from EcoBoosts- not GTs
I would say the Dark Horse is more of a direct comparison to a C8- and more people are buying C8s then Dark Horses (assuming Ford is not selling 3K Dark Horses a month)

I dont think its fair to let Ford pump out a gazillion EcoBoost rental cars and then claim its the best selling sports car.....

Next- the idea that the Mustang cant stack up with some of the best drivers cars in the world....

Well- lets go back a generation to the GT350s
The GT350 won just about every drivers car comparison - only losing out to cars 2 to 3 times its price....so Ford does know how to make the S550/S650 platform work...

(Not to mention the Dark Horse has already clicked off a win against the M2)

As far as the GT350 having a lot of vibration in the motor.....you know its a funny thing.... when the original designers of the flat crank for the C8 were designing the motor- they were laughing at the fact that the first GT350s used to vibrate the oil filter off......they were laughing until the same thing happened to them......even with the "correct" firing order- and had to go to a bolt on design for the oil filter to keep it attached to the motor .....

The VooDoo is a more temperamental motor then the Coyote- but if you keep it stock and follow the "rules" of VooDoo ownership...the final generations with the Predator Block are known to be reliable motors- lots of us with lots of trouble free miles on our cars .....

Although its funny to watch you guys all talk about perception when the same YouTuber Tick Toks that were making vidoes left and right OMG OMG EVERY VOODOO IS A TICKING TIME BOMB - are now focusing on the S650- OMG its slower then an S550!! OMG IT WEIGHTS 400 POUNDS MORE!! CLICK SUBSCRIBE NOW!!

At the end of the day - every variation of the S550 and S650 is an awesome car.....and Ill take my cheap interior if it lets me have V8 noises every day and all day ......

Most of this is true! Except for the Corvette vs only the dark horse sales. I wouldn't only compare dark horse sales to Corvette, because there are a lot of people like me who got the gt with every upgrade because they like the way it looks better than the dark horse lol I paid $63k for my gt when that could have gotten a dark horse. But the rest is true! Lol

 

[Upacurb]

I just want to say that is why Ferrari ,AMG or BMW in their M3 DTM racecars never made flat-plane crankshaft engines with more than 4 liters displacement....vvvibbbrations ! And I dont think a flat-plane V8 sounds like a V 8...IMHO Not a fan...More vibration,less torque,no real V8 sound for a little more topend ? I guess in racing ok but otherwise who cares...

as a pure track car… I also agree the Coyote is more reliable… and yes not everyone likes the sound… for those of us that do though… it’s a love it or hate it type of car for sure…

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